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post #121 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Sure they would. The Dems moving back into the White House is a long way off by their estimation. Lots of bad shit can happen that they can squeeze Bush to help them out of for the next year or so. It will also give them plenty of time to bargain for "forgiveness" from the Dems, if they feel that is necessary if the Dems take the White House. In the end this was probably good for Pelosi. She isn't dumb or lazy, and this didn't kill her so it will make her better. I doubt a real grudge will be held, and if she learned anything it should be she will have a bargaining chip to play in the future now. Experiences like this one can be very useful in building skills for training snakes. Jim
Oh man, I am getting the chills
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post #122 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 06:43 PM
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Au contraire, she needs to take the fight to them. You know like he thinks it should be done.
So why not attack Bush on his foreign policy in a foreign country that he could not bring it to the table. Syria in my opinion is much more important than Iran, yes this statement runs opposite to yours because Syria is in direct line of sight of Israel and is heavily involved in Lebanon and Iraq. If Syria plays nice all Arabs will take note and Iran will again become irrelevant. She is a genius if you ask me.
"...genius????????" You've got to be kidding!

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post #123 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
Sure they would. The Dems moving back into the White House is a long way off by their estimation. Lots of bad shit can happen that they can squeeze Bush to help them out of for the next year or so. It will also give them plenty of time to bargain for "forgiveness" from the Dems, if they feel that is necessary if the Dems take the White House. In the end this was probably good for Pelosi. She isn't dumb or lazy, and this didn't kill her so it will make her better. I doubt a real grudge will be held, and if she learned anything it should be she will have a bargaining chip to play in the future now. Experiences like this one can be very useful in building skills for training snakes. Jim
Can't see it, Jim, too risky for them to align with either side of our political mess. I think they're smarter than that. Plus, it smells of an excuse for a dumb act. And finally, you read it first in BWOT, a bastion of credibility.

Were you her, would you admit to being outmaneuvered by GW? Even if JE nailed the truth, even she will never speak of it.

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post #124 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 07:01 PM
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She got Bush-whacked, and even she knows it now. The question is can that dumb bimbo survive that kind of political incompetence???

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post #125 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman
Can't see it, Jim, too risky for them to align with either side of our political mess. I think they're smarter than that. Plus, it smells of an excuse for a dumb act. And finally, you read it first in BWOT, a bastion of credibility.

Were you her, would you admit to being outmaneuvered by GW? Even if JE nailed the truth, even she will never speak of it.
See, this is where the lifelong dependence on negotiating skills pays off. First, they know neither US political party can afford to pin them down and take them to task for anything. Second, they know they can create conditions to make ammends by pretending to pursue some peace initiative by the party in power or deliver some other item or issue of value to that party. Third, they have been doing this for as long as Israel has existed. And, so have the rest of the Middle Eastern countries. They will use anyone and anything in a negotiation. When it is important, and for them all negotiations are important, you learn to take risks. And the risks of one political party in the US taking any such incident seriously enough to give up on Israel are too small to measure. Israel knows they can "make up" and give a momentary victory to either party and in the process get another chip to play. The fact most Americans would never consider engaging in this type of behavior is a clue why we rarely come out ahead in negotiations. Jim

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post #126 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
See, this is where the lifelong dependence on negotiating skills pays off. First, they know neither US political party can afford to pin them down and take them to task for anything. Second, they know they can create conditions to make ammends by pretending to pursue some peace initiative by the party in power or deliver some other item or issue of value to that party. Third, they have been doing this for as long as Israel has existed. And, so have the rest of the Middle Eastern countries. They will use anyone and anything in a negotiation. When it is important, and for them all negotiations are important, you learn to take risks. And the risks of one political party in the US taking any such incident seriously enough to give up on Israel are too small to measure. Israel knows they can "make up" and give a momentary victory to either party and in the process get another chip to play. The fact most Americans would never consider engaging in this type of behavior is a clue why we rarely come out ahead in negotiations. Jim
Can't really dispute these observations, but they're only that. She screwed up either way.

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post #127 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:44 PM
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I'm a young guy, but I didn't think it was in the perview of legislators to go on whirlwind "diplomatic" tours of the planet, especially as representatives of this nation and it's foreign policies. Maybe I'm mistaken...of course, several hundred/thousand people at the State Department might be surprised to learn they've been made redundant. I know one ambassador in particular who must be livid at the thought...but hey, what do they know.

I'm sure Ms. Pelosi is fully briefed in diplomatic protocol, the histories and backgrounds of the countries & players, and has cultivated a relationship in which they don't view her as a fun little remote control toy.
Just look back at the visits to foreign governments of Newt Gingrich or Carl Albert, Mike Mansfield, Tip O'Neil, Mitch McConnell [just back from negotiations in China], John McCain [just back from Iraq]

It is actually a fairly common practice for Senators and Congressmen [especially senior members of each house] to junket to see world leaders. It is one way our government gets face to face messages that explicitly DO NOT go through official diplomatic channels. Junkets have been somewhat less in the past six years, in some respects because this administration has lacked a cohesive foreign policy and many of the former leadership in Congress frankly were very weak in foreign policy, which has manifested in our current lack of respect by most of the world.

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post #128 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:48 PM
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Can't really dispute these observations, but they're only that. She screwed up either way.
Nice to see you parrot the official Talk Radio Line. You're a good little comrade.
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post #129 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Just look back at the visits to foreign governments of Newt Gingrich or Carl Albert, Mike Mansfield, Tip O'Neil, Mitch McConnell [just back from negotiations in China], John McCain [just back from Iraq]

It is actually a fairly common practice for Senators and Congressmen [especially senior members of each house] to junket to see world leaders. It is one way our government gets face to face messages that explicitly DO NOT go through official diplomatic channels. Junkets have been somewhat less in the past six years, in some respects because this administration has lacked a cohesive foreign policy and many of the former leadership in Congress frankly were very weak in foreign policy, which has manifested in our current lack of respect by most of the world.
It is part of their official duties. Congress's job is oversight. The bi-partisan delegation did just that. We will now have new views presented as part of the discussion, based on direct fact instead of on the bullshit, lying, perjuring criminals who currently run this government. It is refreshing to know we will get information directly from the scene instead of from Cheney and Bush, two of the slimeist proven liars to ever occupy high office in the history of this country. It's about time.
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post #130 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
"...sticking it up GW's derrière..." is all you neo-libs care about! Why don't some of you get a life?
J, I keep reminding you, the only neo-libs [NewLiberals] are the NeoCons that are jumping ships in droves*. Is that who you mean when you use neo-lib or are you trying to make up a rejoinder to NeoCon[NewConfused]?

*easily identified by the recently scraped W stickers from the back of their cars.

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