Hicks pleads guilty - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-2007, 03:46 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
old300D's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jul 2003
Vehicle: '83 240D
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Your assertion concerning the definition of legal combatant is inaccurate, I believe. But I am not a scholar of the Geneva Conventions, so all I can do is demonstrate what I have read.

The United States did not sign the 1977 protocols modify or supersede the earlier definitions. Therefore, the 1949 and earlier definitions are the rules which have the force of law for the USA.

In general, a legal combatant is one who qualifies for prisoner of war status. This is why the military refers to two different sorts of combatant prisoners, lawful and unlawful.

What is a prisoner of war? Notice that the phrase, "...and respect the laws and customs of war." This is one of the most important attributes of a belligerent. Failure to "... respect the laws and customs of war..." is sufficient reason NOT to treat a combatant as lawful. What are the laws and customs of war? They are given in the Conventions, also. Including not using civilians as cover for combat operations, not hiding combatant and instruments of war in schools or hospitals, not target noncombatants for attack. The key is deliberate acts in regards to these behaviors. Accidental or incidental acts are subject to argument.

4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces
4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfill all of the following conditions:
that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
that of carrying arms openly;
that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
4.1.3 Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4.1.4 Civilians who have non-combat support roles with the military and who carry a valid identity card issued by the military they support.
4.1.5 Merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.
4.1.6 Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
4.3 makes explicit that Article 33 takes precedence for the treatment of medical personnel of the enemy and chaplains of the enemy.

Article 5 specifies that prisoners of war (as defined in article 4) are protected from the time of their capture until their final repatriation. It also specifies that when there is any doubt as to whether a combatant belongs to the categories in article 4, they should be treated as such until their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
Technicalities to justify inhumane treatment of people. Way to go, now anyone the president deems a threat, citizen or not, can be detained indefinitely without legal protection. That's completely contrary to spirit of the Geneva Accord and the founding principles of this country. Supporting that twisted logic of Alberto Gone-zales shows a complete lack of moral judgement and character.

OBK #35

old300D is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-2007, 04:07 PM
Cruise Control
 
Zeitgeist's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: '87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon TDI/'01 EV Weekender VR6
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 51,730
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1427 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Excellent point, give the man a cuban cigar.

There is no entity commanding an organized army that opposes the coalition. There is no entity that follows the "laws and customs of war."

Are the captured belligerents, "legal combatants?"
Who knows? I surely don't, 'cause the whole operation is happening outside the clarifying rays of democratic sunshine. Buncha "darkies" grabbed from who knows where, for gawd knows what "crimes". At most, they're simply criminals. Criminals can and should be tried through our legal system. Charge em with a crime and get on with it. Five years rotting in a cage without being charged...WTF??? Gitmo is a moral, legal and political disgrace.
Zeitgeist is offline  
post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-2007, 04:18 PM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
Who knows? I surely don't, 'cause the whole operation is happening outside the clarifying rays of democratic sunshine. Buncha "darkies" grabbed from who knows where, for gawd knows what "crimes". At most, they're simply criminals. Criminals can and should be tried through our legal system. Charge em with a crime and get on with it. Five years rotting in a cage without being charged...WTF??? Gitmo is a moral, legal and political disgrace.
Don't be surprised:
Bush administration will continue to accept 'assurances' from countries that torture
DP is offline  
post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-2007, 04:24 PM
BenzWorld Senior Member
 
Date registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So? What gives a flying fork?

240Joe
240Joe is offline  
post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-2007, 03:47 AM
slightly creased
 
420 SE's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2005
Vehicle: 1988 420 SE; 2015 ML 400
Location: Gold Coast, QLD, AUS & Doha, Qatar
Posts: 16,177
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Indeed, David Hicks has pleaded guilty before an US Military Tribunal. In doing so, he has accepted the legitimacy of the tribunal process.

His guilty plea acknowledges his acceptance of his actions as, according to the definition of the tribunal, terrorism and traitor.

I do not resile from my previous question of the process and it's inherent lack of fairness and justice.

I accept that by his own words, David Hicks has declared himself to be these things, and as such, should be condemned by the world.

Did this advance the cause of justice? I think not. Did David Hicks accept, for whatever reason, the process? I think so.

Does it make the process right? History will tell.

Ross

OzBenz

beware of fundamentalists

420 SE is offline  
post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-2007, 05:02 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
rothmans18's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2005
Vehicle: Black 560 SEC AMG, White 560 SEC Carat (RIP 09) , 300E
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
he should be counting his lucky stars and thanking God that he got off so lightly...i was expecting 20 years plus in prison.. a lot of people i've spoken to said he should be freed and they'll welcome him back...and that he's just a freedom fighter and he's just anti US....i tell them the moment he decided to leave Australia and fight for a foreign army he's committed TREASON...yes i know it was wrong to detain him for 5 years in that shithole but he did it to himself...why leave a free and beautiful country with an awesome way of life to fight for the taliban? If he's a freedom fighter /war junkie he should've joined the Aussie army...simple as that, he's betrayed his own country...

ps, i really like that Major Mori dude, he's the kind of guy i'd introduce to my sister...
rothmans18 is offline  
post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-2007, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by old300D
Technicalities to justify inhumane treatment of people. Way to go, now anyone the president deems a threat, citizen or not, can be detained indefinitely without legal protection.....
Yeah, that ol' law thingie is just a pain in the butt, isn't it?

Arf-arf!

B
Botnst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Guilty Verdict DP Off-Topic 30 03-09-2007 07:54 AM
    One of the soldiers in Haditha massacre pleads guilty FeelTheLove Off-Topic 198 12-24-2006 02:17 PM
    The guilty Acuator Minkoff W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 0 05-01-2006 03:06 PM
    Not Guilty GMISBEST. Off-Topic 0 04-29-2006 07:11 AM
    Man Pleads Guilty In Horse-Sex Case Saigon76nyc Off-Topic 11 12-04-2005 08:46 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome