Looks like we may invade Iran next..... - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:16 PM
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^^^Yes, as you may have surmised by now, I am a libertarian isolationist. I have little interest in world conquest or expending enorous resources expanding our global sphere of influence.
I did surmise as much. But America is not merely an empire building its own wealth. For 50 years America has used its military and political might to effectively subsidize and protect the free civil rights and economic order of the West. If we fail in these efforts it is not merely to our detriment, but to the detriment of every freedom-loving nation on earth.
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post #72 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:18 PM
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Between Iran and the U.S., which is actively engaged in warfare at this moment? And do you mean the way we destroyed Iraq? You are accusing of Iran of aspiring to deeds we have already committed, and right on their doorstep.
If you don't believe that Iran is actively engaged in war against our soldiers and the Iraqi government right now then you are not following the news closely enough.
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post #73 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:20 PM
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The blame for every death in the wake of the invasion cannot be logically placed at the feet of the U.S. Had Iran been helpful in stabilizing Iraq the nation would be a far more peaceful place today.
Suggest a single reason why, when we removed Saddam, the guy who was keeping Iran at bay for his entire stint as the Iraqi dictator, Iran would try to cooperate? Did we do anything to incentivize them? Could we without alienating Bush's bosses in the House of Saud?

I think your suggestion that Iran might have opted to be cooperative with our interests in the reason, when we never spent any time trying to explain them to Iran before we invaded Iraq, is a little disconnected from reality. Jim
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post #74 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:23 PM
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I still believe that a tenuous partnership in Afghanistan may have helped a great deal, but of course we'll never know...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #75 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:26 PM
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I still believe that a tenuous partnership in Afghanistan may have helped a great deal, but of course we'll never know...
You may be right. But we are where we are, and I think Iran has done nothing to earn the good nature of the world community.
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post #76 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:30 PM
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You mean like when Iran threatens to obliterate our ally Israel or sends hundreds of sniper rifles capable of piercing American armor to insurgents operating in Iraq?
I don't see the connection you made, but threatening Israel is, for the most part, Israel's problem. They decided the only spot on Earth they wanted was the one they have now, and along with that desire comes a heritage of religious conflict that has lasted thousands of years. I don't see how it is America's responsibility to get involved in a never ending conflict that has been around nearly ten times longer than America has.

Sending rifles to insurgents in Iraq is a item, if they are doing it and we have proof, for the negotiating table. If we elect to bring it to the negotiating table, we have to have something to offer Iran. I don't think there is a diplomat in the Bush Administration, or possibly younger than 75 years old in the US, who has a clue what makes the Iranians tick enough to come up with something they want and we can provide. You can't give them a crystal vase or some other trinket they won't value. But there is likely something we can provide that they do want enough to be pursuaded to cooperate. That is human nature and it is how all trade gets started and flourishes. Understanding the people you are negotiating with so everyone is happy, genuinely, with the outcome.

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post #77 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:32 PM
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Suggest a single reason why, when we removed Saddam, the guy who was keeping Iran at bay for his entire stint as the Iraqi dictator, Iran would try to cooperate? Did we do anything to incentivize them? Could we without alienating Bush's bosses in the House of Saud?

I think your suggestion that Iran might have opted to be cooperative with our interests in the reason, when we never spent any time trying to explain them to Iran before we invaded Iraq, is a little disconnected from reality. Jim
I guess I disagree with your premise. Iran didn't need to cooperate, nor did it need to approve of our efforts. Nor, for that matter, does it need to develop nuclear weapons. It chooses to kill our soldiers, antagonize Israel, defy the United Nations, send weapons (specifically designed to kill our soldiers) to Iraqi insurgents and undermine the Iraqi government. If you disagree with aggression (as many here seem to), then Iran is displaying breathtaking aggression that deserves at least equal condemnation to that that you would give to the United States.

But in the end, which of these two nations (the U.S. and Iran) has a better record on civil rights and the rule of law? Which has threatened to destroy an entire nation by killing all of its inhabitants? Which has taken 15 soldiers of a foreign government with which it was not at war hostage?
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post #78 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:34 PM
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I don't see the connection you made, but threatening Israel is, for the most part, Israel's problem.
Jim
Just like Hitler's invasion of Poland wasn't "our problem."
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post #79 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:37 PM
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Sending rifles to insurgents in Iraq is a item, if they are doing it and we have proof, for the negotiating table.
Jim
Iraq Insurgents Caught Using Rifles From Austria
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post #80 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:38 PM
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You may be right. But we are where we are, and I think Iran has done nothing to earn the good nature of the world community.
Again, what have we or anyone else offered them that would convince them to behave differently? We taught them how to exploit their oil reserves. We meddle in their internal politics and end up at odds with them, breaking off diplomatic relations. Now we try to bully them by speaking to them only down the barrel of a gun. Everyone else in the world kisses their asses for their oil. Until it runs out, as long as we don't want to change first, I see the present arrangement as acceptable to Iran. If we want things to change, we have to change our tactics. What do we really want has to be determined first though, and after that, how to get it, or what to offer for what we want needs to be asessed, along with several equally optimal outcomes with different offerings, followed by many less optimum outcomes with many more different paths or offerings. Jim
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