Looks like we may invade Iran next..... - Page 19 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #181 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by picklesam
it's shitty how there's always some arsehole country/ies that fuck up world peace...i'm not a historian but it seems the world has NEVER been at peace...in the 20 th century it was germany, then germany and japan, then the russians, north koreans, viet cons, bosnia and now the middle east...it's always when an evil dictatorship/regime is defeated another screams out for attention...why can't the fucks show themselves at once and we can get rid of them in one go?
Its called life.

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post #182 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:36 AM
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in light of the latest news, the uk gov't imo should agree to 'guarantee' that no incursions into iranian waters will happen, but only after the service people along with their equipment are released.

then god help any iranian gunboat from straying onto the iraqi side.. which would end up a pile of scrap metal at the bottom of the gulf.

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post #183 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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^^^^ Agreed!!

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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post #184 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by elau
Mr B,
They served a purpose, didn't they? They kept millions fed, clothed, and employed. Did they not? They provided a stable and lawful society, did they not? Every citizen served a purpose and abided the rules of the land. It may not be the "paradise" in my and yours dictionary, but those people did not miss what they did not know. Whose to say they were suffering? You were not there to walk in their shoes, not even 100 yards.
I don't even know what to say to this. Millions upon millions dead and starved in the USSR and China with intentional famines and Elau defends them.
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post #185 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by elau
I don't remember blue fingers, but i do remember purple fingers.

Blue? Are you referring them dead? In which I think most of them already are.
The original point of this was the elected Iraqi government which you purported to not know existed. Do you acknowledge that there is now an elected Iraqi government?
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post #186 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Man, you post a load of recycled World Net Daily crap. Just about everything you post is a sack of damned lies. Tell me, how did Saddam violate the ceasefire? If he had no WMDs, how was he in violation of UN resolutions? And as far as "everyone thought he had WMDs", what about the UN weapons inspectors? And how the fuck can you right wingers think you can claim "French intelligence" or "Spanish intelligence" thought Saddam had WMDs? Do intelligence agencies have, like a call in talk show or something? I mean, prove one freaking thing you are saying.
Saddam repeatedly violated the ceasefire even under Bill Clinton, who bombed Iraq in order to get compliance with the ceasefire. In 2003 the U.N. stipulated (as I've posted three times) that compliance with all U.N. resolutions regarding Iraq and its purported WMDs was required for Iraq to be in compliance with the ceasefire. Hans Blix, in both December 2002 and March 2003 reported that Iraq was not in compliance with U.N. resolution 1441.

U.N. resolutions (if you had read them, which you clearly have not) put the responsibility for compliance on Saddam, not on the U.S. or anyone else to prove he had WMDs. Ergo, by not complying with the inspectors Saddam was noncompliant.

If you can dispute these facts, FTL, you can call me a liar. If you cannot, I expect an apology.
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post #187 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by elau
I won't go as far as calling those "nations" contributing. They are there because it a good media coverage. Not to mention how we bullied them to submissions behind closed doors.

What elected government of Iraq?

Funny how folks such as yourself talk as if the Iraqi requested our presence and liberation. How things twisted so quickly. History are rewritten even before the ink is dry.
What do you mean, "nations?" Are you using scare quotes to suggest that they are not, in fact, nations?

Prove that we bullied them.

And no one here (myself included) EVER suggested that the Iraqis requested our presence prior to the invasion. It is a fact that the new, elected (purple fingers) government of Iraq has requested (for the time being) that we stay. Do you dispute this?
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post #188 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 07:53 AM
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I am asking you to list the UN resolution "violations" you claim, and especially, the "cease fire" violations you claim. Where are they?
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post #189 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 08:03 AM
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Are they frauds and lies presented by Powell?

Former aide: Powell WMD speech 'lowest point in my life'

Tuesday, August 23, 2005; Posted: 10:44 a.m. EDT (14:44 GMT)


Former Secretary of State Colin Powell presents the case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2003. What Is This? (CNN) -- A former top aide to Colin Powell says his involvement in the former secretary of state's presentation to the United Nations on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was "the lowest point" in his life.

"I wish I had not been involved in it," says Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a longtime Powell adviser who served as his chief of staff from 2002 through 2005. "I look back on it, and I still say it was the lowest point in my life."

Wilkerson is one of several insiders interviewed for the CNN Presents documentary "Dead Wrong -- Inside an Intelligence Meltdown." The program pieced together the events leading up to the mistaken WMD intelligence that was presented to the public. A presidential commission that investigated the pre-war WMD intelligence found much of it to be "dead wrong."

Powell's speech, delivered on February 5, 2003, made the case for the war by presenting U.S. intelligence that purported to prove that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Wilkerson says the information in Powell's presentation initially came from a document he described as "sort of a Chinese menu" that was provided by the White House.

"(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it,'" Wilkerson says in the program. "It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Wilkerson and Powell spent four days and nights in a CIA conference room with then-Director George Tenet and other top officials trying to ensure the accuracy of the presentation, Wilkerson says.

"There was no way the Secretary of State was going to read off a script about serious matters of intelligence that could lead to war when the script was basically un-sourced," Wilkerson says.

In one dramatic accusation in his speech, Powell showed slides alleging that Saddam had bioweapons labs mounted on trucks that would be almost impossible to find.

"In fact, Secretary Powell was not told that one of the sources he was given as a source of this information had indeed been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar, a fabricator," says David Kay, who served as the CIA's chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. That source, an Iraqi defector who had never been debriefed by the CIA, was known within the intelligence community as "Curveball."

After searching Iraq for several months across the summer of 2003, Kay began e-mailing Tenet to tell him the WMD evidence was falling apart. At one point, Wilkerson says, Tenet called Powell to tell him the claims about mobile bioweapons labs were apparently not true.

"George actually did call the Secretary, and said, 'I'm really sorry to have to tell you. We don't believe there were any mobile labs for making biological weapons,'" Wilkerson says in the documentary. "This was the third or fourth telephone call. And I think it's fair to say the Secretary and Mr. Tenet, at that point, ceased being close. I mean, you can be sincere and you can be honest and you can believe what you're telling the Secretary. But three or four times on substantive issues like that? It's difficult to maintain any warm feelings."
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post #190 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-30-2007, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dorfman24
I don't even know what to say to this. Millions upon millions dead and starved in the USSR and China with intentional famines and Elau defends them.
You don't know what to say because you refuse to acknowledge you are looking from the outside in.

A government, any government, has the right to ensure its rules of law survive. Regardless of methods imposed. If they serve the purpose, then who are we to judge?

If you had a candid conversation with a Russian during the Cold War years, they would have told you our Capitalistic society was the most evil form of government men ever imposed. Have you ever that luxury talking to an old Russian before. I can say I have and their view point remains the same. Do you know how many Russians of generation past still wish the old regime remains? They miss the old "iron rice bowl".

See my point?

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