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post #141 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dorfman24
I will refer specifically to this text, which makes clear that the cease fire (in effect in 2003 and being violated by Iraq) was contingent on Iraq's compliance with U.N. resolutions.

"Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,

Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance"
And, as a charter member of the UN and a permanent resident on the Security Council, when the rest of the UN told us they did not agree with our interpretation of the intent of the document you cite, or the response that was coming out of Iraq, did you think it was responsible to ignore the UN and go it alone? Did that comply with the spirit of getting along with our UN neighbors and allies?

It was no more than our opinion, based on hyped up WMD and ties to Al-Qaeda that none of our European Allies for half a century believed at the time (except for Tony "Bushcock on Blairlips" Blair), that we used to bowl over and bully, then finally ignore the rest of the world as we headed into Iraq alone (except for the English and some other paid off "coalition of the willing" countries who sent a handful of troops who have since gone home). We got caught lying by the rest of the world and it cost us dearly in terms of our credibility and international good will.

We need to be better than that. Jim
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post #142 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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I don't remember where any one of them were paid off. Could you show some proof of that??


Oh yes I forgot dofman24, Jim is VERY wordy in his responces or diatribes, sometimes you can tell what side of the fence he is on, and other times I think he confuses himself. Rarely though will you find him calling names, but as of late he has taken on that roll a few times. Just FYI

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post #143 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:36 PM
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^^^ Are you doing play by play or color analysis? BTW, I'm one of the completely neutral ones.

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post #144 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
And, as a charter member of the UN and a permanent resident on the Security Council, when the rest of the UN told us they did not agree with our interpretation of the intent of the document you cite, or the response that was coming out of Iraq, did you think it was responsible to ignore the UN and go it alone? Did that comply with the spirit of getting along with our UN neighbors and allies?

It was no more than our opinion, based on hyped up WMD and ties to Al-Qaeda that none of our European Allies for half a century believed at the time (except for Tony "Bushcock on Blairlips" Blair), that we used to bowl over and bully, then finally ignore the rest of the world as we headed into Iraq alone (except for the English and some other paid off "coalition of the willing" countries who sent a handful of troops who have since gone home). We got caught lying by the rest of the world and it cost us dearly in terms of our credibility and international good will.

We need to be better than that. Jim
Jim, with all due respect, your mocking tone on Tony Blair makes your point less serious. Blair has suffered politically for his support or our efforts in Iraq and he would not have done so - or be doing so - if he did not have good policy reasons to do so.

Our other allies - France, Russia, Spain and Italy, to name a few - all agreed with our intelligence at the time, however flawed it turned out to be. While many of them did not agree with our action, they did so out of a desire to resolve the problem diplomatically, not because they had contrary intelligence.
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post #145 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
And, as a charter member of the UN and a permanent resident on the Security Council, when the rest of the UN told us they did not agree with our interpretation of the intent of the document you cite, or the response that was coming out of Iraq, did you think it was responsible to ignore the UN and go it alone? Did that comply with the spirit of getting along with our UN neighbors and allies?

It was no more than our opinion, based on hyped up WMD and ties to Al-Qaeda that none of our European Allies for half a century believed at the time (except for Tony "Bushcock on Blairlips" Blair), that we used to bowl over and bully, then finally ignore the rest of the world as we headed into Iraq alone (except for the English and some other paid off "coalition of the willing" countries who sent a handful of troops who have since gone home). We got caught lying by the rest of the world and it cost us dearly in terms of our credibility and international good will.

We need to be better than that. Jim
Does not matter what you or the French think of it.

The fact is that the Security Council had a history of 12 resolutions noting violations of the accords that Saddam had agreed to and demanding compliance else the cease fire was no longer in effect. Saddam alone was responsible for compliance or lack thereof -- not the Security Council, not the people searching for WMD. Saddam sowed defiance and reaped a war and a noose. Tough shit, Saddam.

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post #146 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah play by play is fun lol . I know you tend to be more middle of the road and ask probing(eek) questions..... hence the reason your name has not been mentioned.

Im still waiting for Jayhawk and others to respond before I can add my 2 cents

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post #147 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
the Security Council had a history of 12 resolutions noting violations of the accords that Saddam had agreed to and demanding compliance else the cease fire was no longer in effect. .
That is a better way of putting what I have been arguing here. The obligation to comply and maintain the ceasefire was Saddam's.
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post #148 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, My favorite poster by far is Botnst, very eloquint in his responses, quick witted and concise. He picks the middle of the road, but is conservative in most regards yet doesnt tend to vote that way(meaning not voting for Repubs, I believe more towards independents).

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post #149 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BadBenz94
Alright, My favorite poster by far is Botnst, very eloquint in his responses, quick witted and concise. He picks the middle of the road, but is conservative in most regards yet doesnt tend to vote that way.
Check is in the mail.

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post #150 of 383 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Does not matter what you or the French think of it.

The fact is that the Security Council had a history of 12 resolutions noting violations of the accords that Saddam had agreed to and demanding compliance else the cease fire was no longer in effect. Saddam alone was responsible for compliance or lack thereof -- not the Security Council, not the people searching for WMD. Saddam sowed defiance and reaped a war and a noose. Tough shit, Saddam.
You must have great respect for all of these UN resolutions. I mean, it would be unethical to pick and choose the ones you like, wouldn't it?

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