Congressional antiwar strategy is 'undermining' US troops - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Oh you know Prof, the Elders of Zion gave a roadmap for world domination by dick-trimmed, pork-o-phobes.
Oh yeah, I happen to have a copy of the Elders of Zion and I don't see that passage
Do you really think that I get influenced by such crap, get real Bot. The war on Iraq was instigated by Israel, are you going to deny that?
DP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
The idea that we can have a pro-Israel Iraq is one of the cornerstones of Bush and the neo-con's fantastical thinking. These idiots do not realize that under the religious principles the Arabs hold, this is impossible. To Arabs, Israel must be returned to Allah for religious, not political reasons. In our own society, it would be like saying you think Christ never existed - you would never get elected to anything. Same thing holds true in the Muslim world. Even the most liberal Muslim countries demand the return of Israel to the Dar-al-Islam. The only solution to it is for the Israelis to agree to sit down with Muslim religious leaders to see if some kind of compromise can be worked out - it would be a religious, not a political, compromise. And it would also be impossible.
I don't think a religious solution can be worked out. There are plenty of secular Arabs and Jews that can handle the truth and accept each other. The premise of the Egypt and Jordanian peace accords are secular; it has worked for the last twenty and ten years respectively so why not expand that across the Arab "Uma"? It takes people with courage like Carter to make it happen that's why. Laugh all you want now Bot
DP is offline  
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 11:08 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
BadBenz94's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2003
Vehicle: 2001 Jaguar XJR, 1994 E320(sold)
Location: Kankakee,IL
Posts: 1,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
It takes people with courage like Carter to make it happen that's why. Laugh all you want now Bot
Can I laugh too????!!!!!

My Car WOO HOO...... Now SOLD
New car.... 2001 Jaguar XJR!!!!

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
BadBenz94 is offline  
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 11:20 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
I don't think a religious solution can be worked out. There are plenty of secular Arabs and Jews that can handle the truth and accept each other. The premise of the Egypt and Jordanian peace accords are secular; it has worked for the last twenty and ten years respectively so why not expand that across the Arab "Uma"? It takes people with courage like Carter to make it happen that's why. Laugh all you want now Bot
Like all presidents, Carter did a few things right. The peace between Egypt and Israel, which earned him a Nobel Peace Prize, has been the only lasting one in the Middle East. But internally, the violation of the principle of Dar-al-Islam has introduced the same seeds of instability found throughout the Middle East. Sadat was murdered because of it by the forerunners of Al Queda. Mubarak lives in fear of assasins at all times, and Al Queda has a huge presence in Egypt, in fact many of their leaders are Egyptian. Your average American right wing moron has no clue about any of these issues.
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 11:43 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitch
You can oppose the war and still support the troops. How would any of you war oppositionists like to be a member of the military knowing the funding rug was fixing to get yanked out from underneath you, all because the war has become politicized, instead of a true exit strategy being planned. If you left wingers, who so hate our presence in Iraq, would step up to the plate and present plans for real exit strategies instead of using our soldiers as tools of threat for pulling funding, you would be assured a win of the White House in 2008.

I recognize the following:
1. Our presence in Iraq is not doing us any good with foreign relations.
2. Our reasons for being there have proven to be questionable, at best.

But what are we supposed to do? Cut and run like we did in Somalia? Become an example and further proof that we truly are the 'paper tiger' bin Hiden has so labeled us? We would do much more irrepairable harm if we leave without finishing the job! I say we escalate the number of troops, get the job done, NOW and THEN, get the fuck out and not a minute before some sort of stability has been put in place. We created the mess, now we must clean it up. You guys propose we leave the garbage behind for al Queida and other terrorist organizations to come in and scrounge off of, furthering their purpose! Some plan!

What's going on in Iraq is not pretty. War isn't pretty. War shouldn't be pasted across the screens of our televisions each and every day because it is not for the weak of stomachs and shallow resolves. Every day a road block is placed in front of the troops is another day they have to stay there. Why can't anybody see that??
I agree with the basic desire you have expressed. No American wants an ignominious retreat. But, some of the keys to the problem are described in your own words, not the least of which is we don't really know why we are there.

The President has had his way without any resistance to speak of on this war he started in Iraq since 9-11-2001. All the evidence we can gather is always in hindsight since this President has been exceedingly secretive concerning the strategy, the planning and the execution of his Iraq invasion. Congress and the public are routinely given the MAD Magazine character's "What me worry?" response to any and all , especially when the reports from the field are negative. The view generated by this gathering of hindsight-only evidence depicts this President's ability to gather and interpret intelligence, gather diverse inputs and formulate a coherent strategy, gather diverse inputs and formulate practical, executable plans, and respond effectively to bad news or setbacks as entirely inadequate. As a result, we find ourselves in a situation, as Americans, where those in charge of the prosecution of this post Iraq invasion chaos appear to be overwhelmed by the task and are now reduced to bumbling and fumbling from one day to the next, and unwilling to step back and invite outsiders in to bring new ideas, such as developing an exit strategy.

Based on the elections, the American people have lost confidence in Bush, and have demanded more oversight and involvement from Congress. Given the President's disposition to hold his cards close, which continues today, Congress was given no voluntary opening to act in the interests of the people of the United States.

This left a Congress with little other than the power of the purse to try to force the President to come to the table and openly discuss details of the quagmire he has created for the United States, and listen to new ideas on ways to formulate an acceptable exit strategy. Much of the lack of support for this quagmire in Iraq is due to the lack of effort by the President to build consensus and get buy-in based on something other than flag waving, calling those who question him traitors, or just faggots.

So, this problem is turning into a showdown of Constitutional powers. And Bush is every bit as responsible for forcing the Congress to with hold funds as anyone in Congress is for proposing it or voting for it.

One of the other pleas you make that cannot be answered is for the Democrats to come up with an alternate plan. The minute development of such a plan was carried forward, there would be a great deal of screaming and crying by those presently in the Bush Administration and their supporters, and all of it justified. Any effective plan would have to involve our allies and some of the other players in the area who don't count as our allies. Soliciting their input outside the Bush Administration could not be tolerated, and they would be unlikely to participate knowing that, so the cry for the Dems to do something like that is just unrealistic. And anything short of a real, detailed plan with buy-in from everyone involved is just more bullshit political posturing. We don't need anymore of that, especially now.

I think if the President were to ask for help developing such an alternate to consider, he would be well served. For the Dems to do it on their own is off base - there can only be one government of the United States, and one voice to the outside world authorized to make commitments for the US government. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Like all presidents, Carter did a few things right. The peace between Egypt and Israel, which earned him a Nobel Peace Prize, has been the only lasting one in the Middle East. But internally, the violation of the principle of Dar-al-Islam has introduced the same seeds of instability found throughout the Middle East. Sadat was murdered because of it by the forerunners of Al Queda. Mubarak lives in fear of assasins at all times, and Al Queda has a huge presence in Egypt, in fact many of their leaders are Egyptian. Your average American right wing moron has no clue about any of these issues.
You are absolutly correct and actually we helped build up the "Muslim Brotherhood" in Egypt and funded some offshoot that became Al Qaeda to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. Egyptians were always the masterminds considering that they had the most educated members.
Jordan is not fairing any better. There is a large Islamic movement that wants to elbow into the legistalture and is totally against an peace deal the monarchy has supported. If you think about it it is the fact that there is relative absolute power by either the Jordanian king or the Egyptian king uhem I mean president that actually kept the peace going. The bottom line and this will sadden many people here is that if there was democracy in these two countries Israel would lose both of them. This should be an eye opener for the idiots in here that think that Israel will survive if the Middle East goes democratic. Do the the people deserve better? sure but at what expense? Are we willing to sacrifice Israel so the Arabs will enjoy democracy? Which direction will be in our interest?
DP is offline  
post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 03:47 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
Oh yeah, I happen to have a copy of the Elders of Zion and I don't see that passage
Do you really think that I get influenced by such crap, get real Bot. The war on Iraq was instigated by Israel, are you going to deny that?
deny it? it's a ludicrous, laughable assertion by a crazed Jew-o-phobe.

Does Israel gain from it? Of course! And so does KSA, UAE, Kuwait, Iran, and Jordan. Why not say we dance to their music, too?

The more gainers, the better.

B
Botnst is offline  
post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
deny it? it's a ludicrous, laughable assertion by a crazed Jew-o-phobe.

Does Israel gain from it? Of course! And so does KSA, UAE, Kuwait, Iran, and Jordan. Why not say we dance to their music, too?

The more gainers, the better.

B
I am not surprised with your "Jew-O-phobe" accusation because that's the fatstest and most "effcient" way to put down any critical views about Israel's actions.
Whatever rocks your boat man; I don't think you and I can have a meaningful debate on this issue. I mean why would discuss such a topic with a "Jew-o-phobe"?
DP is offline  
post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 03-14-2007, 03:56 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
I am not surprised with your "Jew-O-phobe" accusation because that's the fatstest and most "effcient" way to put down any critical views about Israel's actions.
Whatever rocks your boat man; I don't think you and I can have a meaningful debate on this issue. I mean why would discuss such a topic with a "Jew-o-phobe"?
I don't care if you're a Jew-o-phobe or a Jew-o-phile or Jew-o-neutral. Whatever floats your boat. Why hide it? Embrace your inner voice and let it sing!

You conveniently missed the point of my previous message, in which I did engage the subject. Instead, you focused on what is trivial in order to dismiss the important.

Fine with me.
Botnst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Car wrecked: best strategy? lo_jack R170 SLK-Class 12 10-12-2006 06:41 PM
    President's Strategy For Combating Terrorism Jayhawk Off-Topic 217 09-08-2006 09:29 PM
    Antiwar Sermon Brings IRS Warning GeeS Off-Topic 2 11-08-2005 09:18 AM
    Congressional Tripping Botnst Off-Topic 18 06-04-2005 10:30 AM
    Congressional Hearings on Rice FeelTheLove Off-Topic 25 01-28-2005 10:51 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome