Democrats Want Gitmo Prisoners Sent to U.S. - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-07-2007, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Democrats Want Gitmo Prisoners Sent to U.S.

I think we should open our homes to these misunderstood freedom fighters to demonstrate our goodwill.

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Democrats Want Gitmo Prisoners Sent to U.S.
By: Mike Allen
March 7, 2007 08:10 PM EST

Key House Democrats plan to insist the Pentagon shut down the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and are contemplating the relocation of many of the 385 or so remaining terrorist suspects to military brigs along the East Coast -- including Quantico, Va., and Charleston, S.C.

"It sets us back in the war on terrorism to be maintaining Guantanamo," said Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.), who's heading an investigation of the facility for the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee.

"It will enhance our reputation to close it down and to apply our system of justice to all of these detainees," he added.

After two trips to Guantanamo, Moran told The Politico that he's recommending Congress cut funding to the detention center at the end of summer 2008. The men held there should then be released, tried or moved to the United States, he said.

A Democratic official involved in developing the Guantanamo strategy said the Democrats, who control the new Congress, expect Republicans to object to bringing the detainees onto U.S. soil because their attorneys would surely argue they were entitled to myriad new rights.

The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Democrats are planning hearings in April or May to "build a record" that closing Guantanamo would be beneficial and that it would be legal, as well as logistically feasible, to bring its detainees to the United States. The hearings would start with panels of lawyers, some of whom are convinced the plan is workable and some of whom represent detainees now at Guantanamo.

And to make the measure more palatable to Republicans, Moran said he would suggest the detainees be transferred to military bases that would allow them to be tried in federal courts under the Richmond-based 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

"Republicans certainly could not consider that a mollycoddling, liberal bastion," Moran said. "The 4th Circuit is as conservative as you get. But the whole world would see that the United States stands for the rule of law. And I think the high-value targets would be shown to be people who undoubtedly should be detained and prosecuted.

"But you've got to distinguish among these people," he said. "We have to prove they actually did something that was designed to hurt American citizens."

A senior administration official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity, said he was puzzled by the Democrats' frequent discussion of closing Guantanamo.

"While we want to bring these guys to trial as quickly as possible, where do Democrats believe we should keep Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11 plot?" the official asked. "Which American city will they choose to place America's most wanted terrorists?"

The Democratic official said the plan would be to relocate the terrorists to military brigs that have suitable courtrooms. In addition to Quantico and Charleston, many could go to Fort Leavenworth, Kan., or to the Norfolk Naval Station, which has four courtrooms.



Still other possibilities include the Marine Corps Air Station in Beaufort, S.C., and Fort Gordon, Fort Stewart and Hunter Army Airfield, all in Georgia.

In the flush of taking control of the House in January, Democrats had talked about pushing to close Guantanamo immediately, perhaps as part of the emergency wartime funding bill that is now pending. But they had trouble settling on a strategy for that bill and now are considering a shutdown directive in the overall defense appropriations bill for the 2008 fiscal year that begins Oct. 1.

The prison camp at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay has been a constant headache for the Bush administration, which has been accused of holding innocent people there indefinitely. Hunger strikes, suicides and accusations of inappropriate interrogations have plagued the facility, home to what the White House calls some of the world's most dangerous terrorists.

U.S. allies abroad have complained about Guantanamo as well. And the president has said that he would like to close it down but that there is no other place to hold the detainees.

Asked about the furor that could erupt in local communities chosen to receive the detainees, Moran noted that the brigs were secure and that most of the detainees had not "been involved in any combat."

"Many of them have never engaged in any act of violence," Moran said. "Some of them hold beliefs that are anathema to ours, but we have a tradition that we don't punish people for their beliefs but rather for their actions."
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 01:02 AM
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Well, we have to decide if we are going to treat them like POWs and give them Geneva Convention considerations [no they did not have to wear a uniform, we have gone over that] OR we are going to treat them like criminals and give them legal considerations.

If we are a nation of laws [that freedom thing we keep fighting for and wanting to spread across the world] we have to make a choice. Just holding them is not an ethical answer, no matter how bad we consider them. Give them a trial and put them in jail if there is evidence that they are bad. If they are prisoners of war, we have to let them go once the war is over [that Mission Accomplished thing].

Or we could just build Gulags like the USSR.

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 01:16 AM
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Moran noted that the brigs were secure and that most of the detainees had not "been involved in any combat."

"Many of them have never engaged in any act of violence," Moran said.



And the problem is?????

Aren't the jails on the mainland secure, or is it that the authorities are worried these dangerous terrorists may pollute the minds of the reforming criminals currently incarcerated in the mainland jails?

Ross

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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 04:11 AM
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We can't incarcerate people indefinitely without bringing charges. That's what evil regimes do.

The military says it isn't US soil, so US laws don't apply.
I think this is a case to get the judicial ball rolling.
I don't care where they do it, but they need to bring charges.

Personally, I think we should have kept them in the country they were in.

Last edited by Gregs300CD; 03-08-2007 at 04:24 AM.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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Yep. In most cases remand them to their country of origin (I'll bet they'd love that). In a few cases treat them as POW's (mostly Afghani's caught during our invasion, if there are any still incarcerated). And a few, put on trial. While they get sorted, leave them at Gitmo. Stupid to treat them all the same.

B
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregs300CD
We can't incarcerate people indefinitely without bringing charges. That's what evil regimes do.

The military says it isn't US soil, so US laws don't apply.
I think this is a case to get the judicial ball rolling.
I don't care where they do it, but they need to bring charges.

Personally, I think we should have kept them in the country they were in.
It doesn't make any difference judicially, US courts have little power over military installations, but what it does do is stop the worldwide condemnation of this monstrosity. Anyone who thinks Gitmo is "a good thing" is a fucking idiot.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yep. In most cases remand them to their country of origin (I'll bet they'd love that). In a few cases treat them as POW's (mostly Afghani's caught during our invasion, if there are any still incarcerated). And a few, put on trial. While they get sorted, leave them at Gitmo. Stupid to treat them all the same.

B
If we are to be true to our ideals, we should grant these men the basic human right of Habeus Corpus, the right established in English Common Law in 1215. Unfortunately, that means they would have to be treated all the same, doesn't it? This concept is quite simple, that any human being who has been imprisoned has the right to be brought before an independent magistrate where the state must justify it's reasons for imprisoning an individual. Without this right, pig fuck fascist slime can simply scoop people from the street and throw them into prison. This is the difference between crimanal kidnapping and justice.

The real truth is this: the men who control this government, and its supporters, support not the ideals of this democracy, they support the same thing the terrorists do: torture, kidnapping and murder, the rule of men over the rule of law. The sooner we are rid of them, the better. Then we can end this incredible contradiction of American ideals foisted on us by the worm shit slime sucking Nazis who are destroying our democracy. The aim of the right wing in this country is obvious, now that we know that felony and perjury are the tools used at the highest level, the aim is to use the techniques used at Gitmo on anyone who disagrees with them. They have said as much.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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The real truth is you are one weird dude.

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 10:37 AM
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In the past, every one of the people in Gitmo would have been executed on the battlefield. That is what happened to everyone that ended up in the hands of the other folks on the ground in Afghanistan.

So we are experiencing the political cost of our restraint.

The hilarious part is watching hand-wringing liberal whine that we didn't execute them.

So much for the anti death penalty position. The souls in Gitmo have a chance to live, which is much more than they would grant FTL. No matter how hard he tried to explain to them that he was on their side the whole time. His attempts to scream "Bush is a mad dog" in Arabic would still turn to wheezes and gurgles as his head was butchered from his body.

His last thought before losing consciousness would be, "But I am one of you. I hate Amerika, too. Allah O' Ahk......"

(I have to try really hard to be whacky like this. Unlike some others.)
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
In the past, every one of the people in Gitmo would have been executed on the battlefield. That is what happened to everyone that ended up in the hands of the other folks on the ground in Afghanistan.

So we are experiencing the political cost of our restraint.

The hilarious part is watching hand-wringing liberal whine that we didn't execute them.

So much for the anti death penalty position. The souls in Gitmo have a chance to live, which is much more than they would grant FTL. No matter how hard he tried to explain to them that he was on their side the whole time. His attempts to scream "Bush is a mad dog" in Arabic would still turn to wheezes and gurgles as his head was butchered from his body.

His last thought before losing consciousness would be, "But I am one of you. I hate Amerika, too. Allah O' Ahk......"

(I have to try really hard to be whacky like this. Unlike some others.)
Bullshit. The US bought them, and we would not have paid for dead people.

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