Bad News In Iraq - The Surge Is Working - Page 52 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #511 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dorfman24
I don't think so. badbez was saying that one tragic episode in Iraq does not prove that the entire effort is doomed. Every nation - and every city - has inequity, lawlessness and human tragedy. Many nations that have lots of it - the U.S. - are considered to be successful, democratic nations.

To leap from that argument to the liberal conclusion that we can't stop bad things so we should leave Iraq is a leap badbenz did not make.
Why yes, it would simply be ridiculous to leap to that conclusion. After all Shiite Death Squads roam the streets of Houston every night rousting people from their homes so they can murder them out in their front yard, and then when I finally think I can get some sleep, here come those Hispanic and Black Death Squads, doing the same thing. Next thing you know, the Mexicans will be strapping on suicide belts.

What utter bullshit. Wake up: you cannot have a democracy in a country that votes with car bombs.
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post #512 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 12:51 PM
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Ireland use to have car bombs not that long ago, and they are doing ok now.

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post #513 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by BadBenz94
Ireland use to have car bombs not that long ago, and they are doing ok now.
Very weak example.
You can't compare what's going on in Iraq with Ireland and even worse the USA.
Your argument does not hold water. Yes we have crime in the US hell I live in Baltimore the CAPITAL OF CRIMES but it's nothing like Baghdad.
I don't have to worry about some people showing up at my door with fake government papers asking for my eviction and then if I complained to the "authorities" I will find a couple of bullets lodged in my head. There is no parallel Badbenz just admit you are wrong and I will understand, otherwise your party has done a major number on you in making you believe this nonesense.
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post #514 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dorfman24
I don't think so. badbez was saying that one tragic episode in Iraq does not prove that the entire effort is doomed. Every nation - and every city - has inequity, lawlessness and human tragedy. Many nations that have lots of it - the U.S. - are considered to be successful, democratic nations.

To leap from that argument to the liberal conclusion that we can't stop bad things so we should leave Iraq is a leap badbenz did not make.
Somehow from your previous posts I thought you were more intelligent than this.
The scale of lawlessness and inequity is the driver here. You can't compare Baltimore to Baghdad. I can still drive through real bad neighborhoods and have a better chance of not being shot at in Baltimore but the odds will stack up against me as an American taking a stroll in Baghdad or a Shiite or Suni driving or walking into the wrong neighborhood. Virtually each street in Baghdad has a militia with road blocks, are you telling me we have the same shit here too?
Hell I would be worried about US contractors taking puck shots at me for their amusement. Are you going to tell me that we have shit like that too? Or maybe that some of our contractors never shoot at Iraqis for the sake of cleaning up their weapons or see a towel fly off someone's head?
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post #515 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:51 PM
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All im saying Prof, is that crime is everywhere and to say that by our invasion we created crime is utter nonsense. Crime is perpertrated by criminals.

And sorry if you have never heard of death threats by going to the authorities. My great Aunt owns a bakery in a south suburb of Chicago and was having her "arm" twisted for "protection". Needless to say they beat the crap out of one of the employees to show their power after they went to the local police. It wasnt until the FBI was brought in(and stayed there for a couple of months) to where they have not had problems of late. But they are always looking over their shoulder.

And you dont think that people have not been shot for going against the criminals wishes? And as far as fake papers, they occur all the time especially against the elderly, trying to get control of their assests and sometimes succeeding or just selling them a bill of bullcrap.

My party has done nothing in making me believe this nonsense. I have seen and read of many of these crimes in person and in the local papers. Sorry.

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post #516 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:55 PM
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Badbenz, read my reply to dorfman:
The scale of lawlessness and inequity is the driver here.
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post #517 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:55 PM
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Your chances may be better here in the US but lets call a spade a spade. There have been familys gunned down for driving down the wrong "streets" here in the US. People have been killed for walking down the wrong alley or subdivision. The crime in the US may not involve bombs but the outcome is still the same, death.

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post #518 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Badbenz, read my reply to dorfman:
The scale of lawlessness and inequity is the driver here.
The scale is different,but to say or imply we created the criminals is wrong.

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post #519 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 02:00 PM
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Badbenz:...My great Aunt owns a bakery in a south suburb of Chicago and was having her "arm" twisted for "protection". Needless to say they beat the crap out of one of the employees to show their power after they went to the local police...
I see you met my uncle Dino huh? You managed to have the FBI stay for a couple of months wow, I wonder if we could have done the same with that lady in Iraq? Oh my bad, too many cases like that in Iraq and we are running thin to offer any protection; did I mention the scale?
Badbenz, just admit that we screwed up!
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post #520 of 655 (permalink) Old 04-03-2007, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Badbenz:...My great Aunt owns a bakery in a south suburb of Chicago and was having her "arm" twisted for "protection". Needless to say they beat the crap out of one of the employees to show their power after they went to the local police...
I see you met my uncle Dino huh? You managed to have the FBI stay for a couple of months wow, I wonder if we could have done the same with that lady in Iraq? Oh my bad, too many cases like that in Iraq and we are running thin to offer any protection; did I mention the scale?
Badbenz, just admit that we screwed up!
Hey I didnt meet your uncle Dino! (nor did I have any power in managing the FBI to stay there)

Prof, we have a different view on things and thats ok. I dont believe we screwed up by taking out Saddam. In hindsight we could have done things differently that may or may not have improved the current situation. But my argument is that we did not creat criminals by our invasion. The criminals already existed and now have been exploiting the current situation. There is a cry for more soldiers in Baghdad right now but there is a fight in congress over the funding. I can only hope that those on the ground are given what they need and are controlled by the generals and not politicians.

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