Bad News In Iraq - The Surge Is Working - Page 46 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #451 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-17-2007, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
And you can sure use them...
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post #452 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-17-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by elau
To your answer. No.

But they are not conventional soldiers either.

What we are fighting are nothing but a bunch of thugs and criminals. Like it or not.
Well then, the Conventions allow the side that follows the Convention to also forego the conventions. We could, according to the Conventions, be just as vicious, murderous, and merciless as those swine who deliberately and intentionally murder children with chlorine gas.

Instead, we afford them the decency of food, water, and shelter. We interrogate them but if abuse occurs, we court martial the abusers and their superiors and force senior officers into retirement. We don't film beheading of the prisoners and distribute tapes of the beheading for propaganda purposes -- yet another pair of Conventions violations.

Many of us believe that the detained combatants should be afforded some of the same rights of citizenship that we give our own people. I think I can state with some certainty of accuracy that the enemy has no worries of that nature.

Yeah, you go ahead and support those Mohammedan "freedom fighters."

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post #453 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-17-2007, 05:20 PM
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You are are starting to sound deranged.

Meanwhile, back in reality:

Hardened Hearts
A chat with an Iraqi journalist shows how hard it will be to win this war.

Web-exclusive commentary
By Eleanor Clift
Updated: 12:21 p.m. CT March 16, 2007
March 16, 2007 - “Do you hate America?” I asked Huda Ahmed, an Iraqi journalist who is a visiting fellow with the International Women’s Media Foundation (full disclosure: I serve as a co-chair of the group). “Yes,” she said without hesitation. “I hate your government, and I hate your military, but not your people. If you visited Iraq, we would welcome you.” She didn’t hate the military right away, she explained. That sentiment only crept in after the scandals—the pictures from Abu Ghraib, the houses bombed indiscriminately, the killing of innocent people. Her hostility toward the U.S. government took root much earlier, after the first gulf war when Saddam was left in place, then through more than a dozen years of punishing sanctions. “They hurt the people; they didn’t hurt Saddam,” she says, recalling the hardship. Families of five or six people would share one egg, each getting a bite. Medicines were so hard to come by that corruption took hold; you had to bribe the nurse before she would give a life-saving injection, Ahmed said.

Ahmed has a degree in languages from Baghdad University and worked as a translator for American reporters when the war got underway. She remembers being puzzled when they first told her to ask Iraqis whether they were Sunni or Shia. Why, she asked? As one of seven children in a Shiia family, she thought of herself as an Iraqi. She knew there were tensions, but nothing like what she sees today. “Maybe they didn’t want their children to marry (outside the faith), but they weren’t killing each other.” The sectarian divisions were ignited and inflamed by the U.S. invasion and its messy aftermath. Today Ahmed ducks questions about her ethnicity. “Iraqi Muslim,” she says, her dark eyes flashing. Then, later, after a vegetarian dinner and a tribute to her courage as a journalist, she offers up the hope framed as a joke that someday Sunnis and Shias will be known as one: “Sushi.”

Asked to identify the three biggest mistakes of the war, she easily rattles them off. Leaving the borders open so foreign fighters could come across at will; disbanding the Iraqi Army so soldiers had to beg for food (“the Iraqis are a dignified people,” she adds), and firing the Baathists, who ran the ministries. Without the Baathists, the ministries collapsed, and the Iraqi people lost basic services. Going without electricity for all but two hours a day is still a commonplace in Iraq, she says. “I don’t know what’s going to be left,” she says. “This is a country of two rivers—the Euphrates and the Tigris. If you saw them today, you will cry. There are bushes in the middle.” The two rivers flow from Turkey through Iraq, and the mud that accumulates must be dredged out. It’s one of the many things that have been neglected. “Nothing is rebuilt—no sewers, no electricity,” she says. “Where did all the money go? Your companies have sucked all the money.”

“What if we leave?” I asked her. “We will sort it out,” she replied. “We have been in war before. We’re not stupid. Things might get worse, but we would run out of excuses. We couldn’t blame the Americans anymore.” She wouldn’t want the Americans to leave right away—any exit should be gradual—but it’s time, she says.

Ahmed was working abroad as a translator in Libya before the U.S. invasion. She returned home in the fall of 2002 to help care for her ill father. Talk of war was in the air but she didn’t believe the U.S. government would liberate the Iraqi people. Everyday life was hard but there were no security worries. People could go to the markets and the cafes, and take their children to the park. “If you kept quiet about the government, you were OK. If you spoke out, you could disappear,” she said. When she learned in a phone call in the middle of the night that she had been awarded a fellowship in the United States, her mother cautioned her not to be overly enthusiastic “or you’ll get us all killed.” Ahmed was jumping up and down and shouting with joy, rousing her entire family who, because of the limited electricity, were all sleeping on the ground floor of their house in Baghdad.

It was a chance to get away from the violence and to try to understand the point of view of the American government toward Iraq and the Middle East beyond all the rhetoric about democracy. It took months to get her visa, but Ahmed is now in Boston taking courses at MIT and Harvard and doing an internship with WBUR, the public radio station. Her attitude toward the U.S. government has not changed, but her openness to American culture is boundless. She had just worked on a story about the ingredients of a Twinkie. She’d never heard of a Twinkie, but she tried it, and it reminded her of an Iranian sweet popular in Iraq. Loving American life will be easy for Ahmed; softening her views of U.S. political leaders is a harder sell.
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post #454 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-17-2007, 07:24 PM
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Jabberwocky, lackey of the Surrender Party, channels Eleanor Clift, who cannot decide to whom we must surrender to first. They are however in perfect accord that at all costs, we must surrender to somebody before we attain victory.

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post #455 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-17-2007, 08:11 PM
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Oh please pick me FTL for the France party of foreign fighters. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!!!!!!

My Car WOO HOO...... Now SOLD
New car.... 2001 Jaguar XJR!!!!

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
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post #456 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 07:17 AM
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It is obvious you all are utterly intellectually bankrupt, what with the only thing left being the "surrender" broken record smear. You people fucked up. You invaded the wrong country. You bogged our armed forces in a hopeless quagmire, and let the terrorists who attacked us roam free, to rebuild, to attack us again. If anyone surrendered, it is your motherfucking party, which surrendered the US Armed Forces to the oil companies. You got all those people killed for nothing. NOTHING. Now it's time for the real patriots to fight this war, the ones who actually know who the enemy is, instead of being a bunch of bloodthirsty kid-killing fucking morons, we intead to fight the real enemy.
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post #457 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 08:58 AM
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Why is the GWOT working then monkey?
post #458 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yes, Geneva Conventions. Don't you take the Conventions seriously?

Did this people take it seriously?,7...377525,00.html
this is breaking news by the way
Mubarak says war criminals will be punished

Following controversy surrounding ‘Shaked Spirit’ documentary, Egyptian president says country will take necessary steps to ensure perpetrators of ‘war crimes’ don’t escape punishment

Roee Nahmias

var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) && (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie && (is_major == 4) && (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x =,'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace ',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x =,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'yaan' : urlStr = '/yaan/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace ',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x =,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'category' : urlStr = '/home/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html'; url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x =,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; } } function setDbLinkCategory(url) {eval(unescape(url));}In his first comments on the frenzy caused by the Israeli documentary, "Shaked Spirit", Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said that his county would take any steps necessary to ensure that those carrying out the "war crimes" would not go unpunished.

The film in question suggested that soldiers of the Shaked Reconnaissance Unit, under the command of Binyamin Ben Eliezer, may have killed 250 Egyptian unarmed captives at the end of the Six-day war.

In an interview to Egyptian newspaper Akhbar al-Yom on Saturday, Mubarak said, "We never have and never will take our sons' and martyrs' rights lightly. We will realize our legitimate rights and take any steps necessary, that is if the allegations of the killing of Egyptian captives during the 1967 war are proven true. However, we must verify the information by anyone who was affected by the incident."

Mubarak continued to say that "the blood of our fallen cannot be taken lightly."

According to a report on Friday by the Gulf News, an Egyptian man who was captured by Israeli troops during the 1967 Mideast war told the Gulf News website on Friday that he had witnessed Labor MK Benyamin Ben-Eliezer killing two Egyptian prisoners of war for "daring to quench their thirst without his permission".

"I was captured by the Israelis five days after the start of the June 5, 1967, war in central Sinai. (Israelis) rounded us up in an area called Al Husna in Sinai," Ameen Abdul Rahman, who served in the reconnaissance corps of the Egyptian army at the time, told Gulf News.

Abdul Rahman, who was detained by Israel for a year, accused Ben-Eliezer of shooting dead two Egyptian prisoners of war.

According to Mohammad Abdul Tawab, another Egyptian soldier captured on June 7, 1967, the Israelis ordered them to sleep on top of each other in hangars at Al Arish Airport in Sinai.

"Seventy died of asphyxia. They were buried in holes covered with quicklime. About 400 injured POWs were buried alive in those holes, too," he told Gulf News.

The controversy in Egypt sparked by the Israeli documentary, has failed to die down even after a meeting between Foreign Minster Tzipi Livni, and her Egyptian counterpart Ahmed Aboul Gheit in Brussels nearly two weeks ago.

Due to the enduring tensions, a visit to Cairo by Ben-Eliezer, now the National Infrastructure minister, was postponed. The minister was supposed to meet with Egyptian Intelligence Head Omar Suleiman.

Do you think that the MP will be brought to justice? Who will do it? The UN, USA, Israel? Get real Bot, this dude is on his way to become a PM with the way things are going nowdays.
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post #459 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by guage
Why is the GWOT working then monkey?
Define "working" hopalong. Jim
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post #460 of 655 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Did this people take it seriously?

Do you think that the MP will be brought to justice? Who will do it? The UN, USA, Israel? ...
I understand that a lot of moisture has been discovered on the south pole of Mars.

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