Islamism - the new Communism? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Islamism - the new Communism?

I heard a line from the new movie Breach that got me thinking. The line went something like this.

"You know what caused the decline of the Russian empire? I spent my whole life studying them. It wasn't America, the cold war.....you know what it was? Godlessness."

I was trying to find articles that corroberated that theory, and came across an interesting fork in the road. It's been theorized that Islamism is the "New Communism", insofar as it offers "an illusory hope of a paradise to come for dissatisfied people".

Do you find any truth in that?

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The 20th century saw the demise of communism, despite its attraction to millions of people who felt poor or downtrodden. It was exposed as a totalitarian system that stifled the aspirations of man. But its stain is spreading within the casing of Islamic fundamentalism. This does not seem obvious, especially considering Osama bin Laden himself was instrumental in defeating the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan more than two decades ago. And the Iranian revolution of 1979 was in part a reaction to the perceived godlessness of communism knocking at its doorstep. This was mimicked to a lesser degree throughout the Middle East, from Egypt to Jordan.

But the old Marxists are extending their influence in many of the Islamic political parties that are rapidly rising in popularity, in response to inept, autocratic Arab governments. Arab governments have closed off opportunity to such an extent that secular forces such as communism or liberalism have minimal outlets. One of the few places for a political voice is at the mosque and through religion. Religion provides the cloak for what is essentially politics.

As a result, political Islam is on the rise throughout the Arab world. The first municipal election in Saudi Arabia delivered wins for Islamic parties and, of course, there was the election of Hamas by the Palestinians. Many of the leaders representing political Islam have previous ties to Arab socialism. This is particularly true in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood won one-fifth of the vote in elections last year. Veteran foreign correspondent Mary Ann Weaver writes in her book A Portrait of Egypt: "A number of my former professors from the American University of Cairo were Marxists 20 years ago: fairly adamant, fairly doctrinaire Marxists. They are now equally adamant, equally doctrinaire Islamists." The developments in Egypt are potent for it has long been a leader in the region.

The similarities of communism and Islam are considerable. Both are egalitarian and advocate radical economic change. They both demand a domination of the public space and share a dogmatic, ideological view of the world. Political Islam is also supplying the social services in a collective context that communism promised, and the status of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah depends on this. Their facilities are often described by locals as superior to those provided by the ruling governments.

Islam also promises to deliver the poor masses from oppression, but there is a difference: instead of the working class rising up against the bourgeoisie, the uprising to be encouraged is by hapless, impoverished Muslims against their oppressive Western masters or puppet Arab leaders. And like communism, Islam believes the collective must be preserved at the expense of the individual. We are social beings first, individuals second. Like communism, Islamism promises a better life for the poor, oppressed and alienated. It is cloaked in God, but its essence is strongly secular. Unless the West fights the war of ideas at this level, offering a competing vision of morality as well as economics and technology, the lure of Islamic extremism will continue to flourish.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 12:51 PM
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So does your fucking religion.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 02:49 PM
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People may need a code to live by. Leaving it up to the guys in funny hats is irresponsible.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I heard a line from the new movie Breach that got me thinking. The line went something like this.

"You know what caused the decline of the Russian empire? I spent my whole life studying them. It wasn't America, the cold war.....you know what it was? Godlessness."

I was trying to find articles that corroberated that theory, and came across an interesting fork in the road. It's been theorized that Islamism is the "New Communism", insofar as it offers "an illusory hope of a paradise to come for dissatisfied people".

Do you find any truth in that?

Link: AWH
The 20th century saw the demise of communism, despite its attraction to millions of people who felt poor or downtrodden. It was exposed as a totalitarian system that stifled the aspirations of man. But its stain is spreading within the casing of Islamic fundamentalism. This does not seem obvious, especially considering Osama bin Laden himself was instrumental in defeating the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan more than two decades ago. And the Iranian revolution of 1979 was in part a reaction to the perceived godlessness of communism knocking at its doorstep. This was mimicked to a lesser degree throughout the Middle East, from Egypt to Jordan.

But the old Marxists are extending their influence in many of the Islamic political parties that are rapidly rising in popularity, in response to inept, autocratic Arab governments. Arab governments have closed off opportunity to such an extent that secular forces such as communism or liberalism have minimal outlets. One of the few places for a political voice is at the mosque and through religion. Religion provides the cloak for what is essentially politics.

As a result, political Islam is on the rise throughout the Arab world. The first municipal election in Saudi Arabia delivered wins for Islamic parties and, of course, there was the election of Hamas by the Palestinians. Many of the leaders representing political Islam have previous ties to Arab socialism. This is particularly true in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood won one-fifth of the vote in elections last year. Veteran foreign correspondent Mary Ann Weaver writes in her book A Portrait of Egypt: "A number of my former professors from the American University of Cairo were Marxists 20 years ago: fairly adamant, fairly doctrinaire Marxists. They are now equally adamant, equally doctrinaire Islamists." The developments in Egypt are potent for it has long been a leader in the region.

The similarities of communism and Islam are considerable. Both are egalitarian and advocate radical economic change. They both demand a domination of the public space and share a dogmatic, ideological view of the world. Political Islam is also supplying the social services in a collective context that communism promised, and the status of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah depends on this. Their facilities are often described by locals as superior to those provided by the ruling governments.

Islam also promises to deliver the poor masses from oppression, but there is a difference: instead of the working class rising up against the bourgeoisie, the uprising to be encouraged is by hapless, impoverished Muslims against their oppressive Western masters or puppet Arab leaders. And like communism, Islam believes the collective must be preserved at the expense of the individual. We are social beings first, individuals second. Like communism, Islamism promises a better life for the poor, oppressed and alienated. It is cloaked in God, but its essence is strongly secular. Unless the West fights the war of ideas at this level, offering a competing vision of morality as well as economics and technology, the lure of Islamic extremism will continue to flourish.
Do you always imagine these wild theories, then cherry-pick snippets here and there to prop up your strange fantasy?

OBK #35

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old300D
Do you always imagine these wild theories, then cherry-pick snippets here and there to prop up your strange fantasy?
Not any more than you spend 1/2 second sight-reading a post then flying off the handle on an irrelevant tangent...

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I heard a line from the new movie Breach that got me thinking. The line went something like this.

"You know what caused the decline of the Russian empire? I spent my whole life studying them. It wasn't America, the cold war.....you know what it was? Godlessness."

I was trying to find articles that corroberated that theory, and came across an interesting fork in the road. It's been theorized that Islamism is the "New Communism", insofar as it offers "an illusory hope of a paradise to come for dissatisfied people".

Do you find any truth in that?
I found the article on a somewhat unrelated search, and thought it would be interesting to debate it's assertions. It's not my theory. I'm not even a religious person.

By the way, I think your seat is uncomfortable because FTL has his head in your ass.

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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
So does your fucking religion.
WTF is that all about??? Peckerheads...
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 02:58 PM
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Religious intolerance is a key factor in what got us in this place to begin with.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
Not any more than you spend 1/2 second sight-reading a post then flying off the handle on an irrelevant tangent...



I found the article on a somewhat unrelated search, and thought it would be interesting to debate it's assertions. It's not my theory. I'm not even a religious person.

By the way, I think your seat is uncomfortable because FTL has his head in your ass.



WTF is that all about??? Peckerheads...
Take your article, remove Islam, insert Christianity, what is the difference? None. They both push fantasies for gullible pinheads. You point a finger at Islam, you got four point back at you.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-20-2007, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
Not any more than you spend 1/2 second sight-reading a post then flying off the handle on an irrelevant tangent...
All the time then, thanks for answering.

OBK #35

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