Revolutionary Guards bus bombed in Iran - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 07:26 AM
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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 07:32 AM
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Are they subhuman to you?
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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Are they subhuman to you?
What does one have to do with the other? No, they aren't subhuman to me, but I don't think it's any more fair to assume everyone in countries where media outlets are state-run will be objective, well-informed observers of American policy than it is to assume all of them are 'sub-human'. Any middle-easterner you encountered while working at the World fucking Bank I can assure you is not your run-of-the-mill farmer or shepherd - meaning they're in a very, very small minority. People know what they see, and to a certain extent, what they read and hear. If you consider the average person's access to news in the middle-east, and the predominant systems of education being based on religion first and facts second, it's not a stretch to imply that they probably don't have a well-informed world view.
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
What does one have to do with the other? No, they aren't subhuman to me, but I don't think it's any more fair to assume everyone in countries where media outlets are state-run will be objective, well-informed observers of American policy than it is to assume all of them are 'sub-human'. Any middle-easterner you encountered while working at the World fucking Bank I can assure you is not your run-of-the-mill farmer or shepherd - meaning they're in a very, very small minority. People know what they see, and to a certain extent, what they read and hear. If you consider the average person's access to news in the middle-east, and the predominant systems of education being based on religion first and facts second, it's not a stretch to imply that they probably don't have a well-informed world view.
Well let me assure you that I did not just sit in a World Bank office in Washington DC building up my impression about these people. I actually worked in their countries and I can tell you that they are as smart as you think we are and then some in some areas.
First of all religious schools are a very small percentage of the educational infrastructure for most Arab countries. If you are referring to Afghanistan then maybe you are right but this is not true for say Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, hell even Iraq. The bottom line is that you are ill informed yet you are talking as if you are an authority on this subject.

Having access to news that distorts someone's perception of others is not true and honest access. Apparently you are a victim of such given you opinion of these people. I can assure you that the majority of these people know about our culture and values because they want to learn unlike our typical kids here who can't even tell if Mexico is south or north of us.

So please next time choose your media, I mean something other than FOX or CNN to get a picture on other societies. Maybe take a trip over there, don't be afraid just tell everyone that you are Canadian
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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 08:54 AM
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post #46 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 09:06 AM
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Actually, yes, the cloth pen is a Feel The Love Sheep Pasture Privacy unit. I am glad to see another happy customer.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #47 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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To a Russian Freedom is still an abstract idea, and the majority was better off under the old system of 'we pretend to work, and the goverment pretends to pay us.'
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post #48 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 10:41 AM
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To a Russian Freedom is still an abstract idea, and the majority was better off under the old system of 'we pretend to work, and the goverment pretends to pay us.'

And I thought things were hunky-dory (improving) there nowadays? Moscow made it on the ten best places to live even??!!
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post #49 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by guage
America bad
This is the epitome of arrogant laziness that is the hallmark of the present administration. If you can reduce the world to black and white, good and bad, cowboys and indians, the solutions are obvious and no one really needs to think anything out, consider the cultural differences or in any way complicate the issues with considerations of how other people might perceive things. If they don't agree, you just tell them they are from the "America bad" brigade and dismiss them.

America is capable of great good as well as bad. Because America does something does not mean the deed gets chalked up in the good column. "Good" as a judgement of the effect of an act by America and is judged by each of the groups directly, and often indirectly, affected by the act. This leaves a wide range of judgements possible. In the case of our invasion of Iraq, there is really no one who has been affected who can say they feel the results have been good to date. From Bush to Saddam to the American people to the Iraqi people. In other cases, if a few Americans are enriched by an act carried out in the name of all Americans, and many people around the world are demeaned or otherwise adversely affected, the net effect of that American action may not be "good" and we have to be aware enough to pick up on that possiblility, and smart enough not to repeat it if we want to be perceived as the America of our forefathers. The America we inherited was not perceived as the America of economic exploitation and purely military diplomacy. Even Bush is having a hard time with diplomacy being accepted by his "base" now, which I don't understand. Just the beneficial fiscal effects of treaties and diplomacy has to be apparent, yet it seems like the cost of being effective diplomatically is resented, while the greater cost of military confrontation is always acceptable both in terms of lives of American soldiers and our national treasure.

By now we should be able to understand the Islamic perception of our new, upstart culture based on the dollar is not welcomed in their land. Yeah, you always emphasize the aspects of our "dollar is the almighty" culture, that are expected to be universally welcomed, such as "freedom" and "democracy." Since these advertised benefits come with many aspects that amount to a direct affront to many thousands of years old cultures, the whole package is not viewed as such a bargain. Apparently across the board by older cultures. Forcing our "freedom" and "democracy" on such an older culture at the end of a gun is obviously galvanizing the underlying resentment it generates, with the unwanted effect of open and direct disdain for America, our "freedom" and our "democracy" and general support for those minorities who are motivated to fight back.

If we are unwilling to examine possibility that we are one of the ingredients that has turned the present day Middle East cauldron of boiling issues to a mixture capable of destroying our world because we think we can do no wrong, we are doomed to go down in history as a failed social experiment not unlike the Weimarer Republik, which set the conditions for Hitler's Nazi Germany. Get off your high horse. We are deeply involved in a situation that is going horribly wrong. It cannot solely be someone else's fault. It is imperative that America understand what it has done that has gone wrong, learn from the experience, and stop repeating it. It is also imperative that one lesson we learn is that we are a small population compared to the rest of the world, and we don't seem to be able to get along with any of them now - to survive at the top of the heap means being the best across the board, not just in cowboy roping and six shooter tricks for rodeos. Jim
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post #50 of 56 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
You are sadly mistaken. I worked at the World Bank and those same people you call ignorant can surely talk the talk in three to four languages and then some.
Maybe you should look inward and judge our ignorance of world affairs, cultures and for God sake simple geography.
Im sure what he meant was the population in general. The education system over there is very limited. Too much of what they learn is hand fed to them, akin to our left wing media outlets. However over here those with a bit more intelligence can access other venues to get a more "balanced" view of the news.

Too, the people you have come across at the World Bank Im sure they have a substantially higher education than their peers, hence their placement at the World Bank.

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