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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
So where are all our "libertarians"? Silent as usual. Bush's directive places the principle of "commisars' into US law. Where is the outrage from Botnst? Is he much too busy with his tuna? Perhaps the misfiling of charity paperwork has taken his attention away, it is obviously more important than placing Soviet-style government in place here in America. All hail Chairman Bush!
Yep, three days, no response. Cowards.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 04:35 PM
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They are busy trying to find the silliest retort possible so that 2+2 will appear to equal 5.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 04:35 PM
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Yep, three days, no response. Cowards.
Say, what?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 04:39 PM
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Like the Greek poet, I am unable to find one honest Libertarian.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 04:45 PM
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Oh yeah? Yo mama's a Republican and yo daddy's a bullfrog. I'm right here. Bring it on mofo.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 05:03 PM
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you're no libretarian man. you seem to actually care about the little guy. sorry.



in political asylum
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 05:11 PM
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Fuck the little guy, how's that? I guess you weren't paying attention when I advocated (and still advocate) a flat federal tax (and I don't mean a tax rate).

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quite frankly, I didn't read this thread when first posted because most of the time I find FTL's diatribe's tedious and needlessly contentions and his responses to criticism unpleasantly abusive--as when he responded to my non-response, above.

Okay, so now I have read it.

I've been dealing with gov censorship of gov science since 1993. This is a bureaucratic change, not a change in policy.

Probably not what you're looking for huh?

Yes, it sucks. What I was told (recently) during a meeting between scientists and the regional administrator who will oversee this office was, "Look at your W-2." In other words, the terms of employment are clear and if you don't like it, hit the road. Is that different from private industry? The reason all of the politicians are panty-wadded about gov science is pretty obvious. Politicians speak for the government, not some eggheaded nobody. When the scientists undermine or contradict the politicians they get all bent out of shape. That's fine with me, except the scientist better not be wrong.

For example, a number of years ago a gov research office published a series of maps of the northern coast of Alaska and showing the location of calving areas and oil industry infrastructure and some model outputs that indicated various probability matrices concerning the impact of exploration and production on the migratory caribou herd. It made a big stink while the senate was going through one of it's many paroxysms over ANWR. It seemed to indicate that teh caribou herd would be tragically impacted.

But wait a minute --> the scientist who was modeling the migratory patterns didn't send the outputs for internal peer review (wherein you get other scientists who know something to review the methods, procedures, results and conclusions). In fact, that research scientist was still working on the model and had no intention of releasing the maps until his project was farther advanced and properly reviewed. It turned-out that his GIS technician had been posting intermediate model results on a website without the knowledge or approval of the research scientist -- effectively misrepresenting the scientists research while pulling a landslide of political criticism down on everybody.

The GIS tech was fired and the scientist was chastised for not exerting greater control over his tech. That's as it should be. The downside has been reverberating ever since. Worse, every time a gov scientist releases info that undermines policy the politicians remember the other events. Yes, there have been others, including outright fraud by gov scientists.

I think the current system is way, way too burdensome. It provides a de facto censorship because scientists vett their work for policy implications. Why risk a firestorm from above? Finally, one of the unintended consequences of Gore's "re-inventing government" was to actually increase political interference with gov science in the name of making scientists accountable and responsive.

Got a perfect solution? I don't.

B
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 02-03-2007, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
... during a meeting between scientists and the regional administrator who will oversee this office was, "Look at your W-2." In other words, the terms of employment are clear and if you don't like it, hit the road. Is that different from private industry?



... That's fine with me, except the scientist better not be wrong.

For example, a number of years ago a gov research office published a series of maps of the northern coast of Alaska and showing the location of calving areas and oil industry infrastructure and some model outputs that indicated various probability matrices concerning the impact of exploration and production on the migratory caribou herd. It made a big stink while the senate was going through one of it's many paroxysms over ANWR. It seemed to indicate that teh caribou herd would be tragically impacted.

But wait a minute --> the scientist who was modeling the migratory patterns didn't send the outputs for internal peer review [ the regional administrator? ] ...

The GIS tech was fired and the scientist was chastised for not exerting greater control over his tech. That's as it should be. The downside has been reverberating ever since. Worse, every time a gov scientist releases info that undermines policy the politicians remember the other events. Yes, there have been others, including outright fraud by gov scientists.

I think the current system is way, way too burdensome. It provides a de facto censorship because scientists vett their work for policy implications. Why risk a firestorm from above? (Chicken) Finally, one of the unintended consequences of Gore's "re-inventing government" was to actually increase political interference with gov science in the name of making scientists accountable and responsive.

Got a perfect solution? I don't. (Real Science)

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