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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
It had been well established that Saddam had no nukes, so in reality, we're discussing biological weapons here. The kind of weapons that lots of countries have, including us, Russia, China, N. Korea, the list goes on. Could Iraq deliver such a payload to U.S. soil? No. Would Iraq even be interested in delivering such a payload to U.S. soil? Unlikely, since there are equally appealing targets much closer to home, including but not limited to Israel.

Saddam and Bin Laden had no interest in each other. Unlike Bin Laden, Saddam's primary interest was survival, autonomy and a life of debauchery and luxury. Bin Laden was not a vehicle toward that end.

But you're right, it was a guess on my part, no doubt. The thing is, I just don't think it mattered. Pakistan has WMDs, Pakistan has a relationship of sorts with Al Qaeda. Why are you not terrified of Pakistan? Iraq was already under our thumb, they were a minor concern at best. Bottom line is that I never gave a rat's ass about WMDs. This whole 'do as I say, not as I do' thing just doesn't wash with me.

I checked out the Hilary video, but I really can't stomach 8 minutes of her, and the video/sound quality didn't help either.
"Saddam's primary interest was survival, autonomy and a life of debauchery and luxury. "

How does that fit with his behavior leading up to the invasion?

Pakistan is a problem as you point out. Today, they are a possible nexus of WMDs and those who would use them against the US. Terrified? No. Intellectually mildly concerned in a detatched way? Sure.

I will continue to disagree with the premise that WMDs in the hands of France represent a threat equal to that of Iran, for example.
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Naomilla2.0
Also, did the intelligence ever make a solid connection between Saddam and Osama?
No, and my absurd "smoking Fedex package" hypothetical should not be interpreted as such.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gregs300CD
What, you're not buying the "Iraqi Freedom" or the "Fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" justifications?

You're not being a good Republican sheep, you know.


Remember, a main tenet of the Art of War is to never expose your true intentions. (He must have had someone read it for him.) The one bit of truth that slipped out from this administration was the "Mission Accomplished" banner the day they got their hands on the pumps.

Pumping their oil is the only constant. It was the only objective. Any discussion beyond that is convoluted naivete baited from politically biased circumlocution.
Fuck you for the sheep remark. Please prove that you are smarter than that in the future.

Mission Accomplished referred to the mission of the ship and it's crew, which was accomplished. Sorry that is so hard for you to understand.

Did you just learn that oil is an important resource? Please post a link that shows where the US gets it's oil. I guess we went to war so Europe could have oil?
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
"Saddam's primary interest was survival, autonomy and a life of debauchery and luxury. "

How does that fit with his behavior leading up to the invasion?
How does it not? Go back a long, long time, say 5 years prior to the invasion and point to an example that isn't in line with my statement.

How about France and Iraq? France has demonstrated the ability to deliver weapons to U.S. soil, Iraq has demonstrated the ability to throw rocks. Iran is a much scarier place than Iraq.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Fuck you for the sheep remark. Please prove that you are smarter than that in the future.

Mission Accomplished referred to the mission of the ship and it's crew, which was accomplished. Sorry that is so hard for you to understand.

Did you just learn that oil is an important resource? Please post a link that shows where the US gets it's oil. I guess we went to war so Europe could have oil?
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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Professor
Prof, it is good to see you...but I don't get it.

You are starting to act like the captain of the Beagle...FitzRoy...refusing to let the evil of Darwin's theories shake his faith.
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Fuck you for the sheep remark. Please prove that you are smarter than that in the future.

Mission Accomplished referred to the mission of the ship and it's crew, which was accomplished. Sorry that is so hard for you to understand.

Did you just learn that oil is an important resource? Please post a link that shows where the US gets it's oil. I guess we went to war so Europe could have oil?

Damn Dave, you are really out there aren't you dude? Dave why not try just for once to open your mind and look at the Iraq issue without picking a favorite US political side? We presume you are doing well monetarily under the W regime and that you are pleased with that and the look tough attitude W tries to pull over. That is great, we all vote from a personal promotion position. But dude you are twisting and grasping so hard to reason and start arguments that you are making yourself look foolish, and you are too smart for that.
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregs300CD
Was she (and everyone else) supposed to neglect all the information that our intelligence community had to offer and to form their own fact-finding commissions to go to Iraq and find out the "real truth"? Well, maybe it would have been nice considering the partisan lies and misinformation that the pollitically biased "intelligence community" offered up while trying to make pieces fit, but it really isn't practical.
The intelligence community is run by the Executive Branch. The real question is how it was run.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
The intelligence community is run by the Executive Branch. The real question is how it was run.
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 01-29-2007, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
...
1. How about France and Iraq?

2. Iran is a much scarier place than Iraq.
1. Opportunity and motive are not the same.

2. All things being equal, only a fool would advocate attacking the stronger enemy.

Take a look at a map. By defeating Iraq, Iran is effectively locked between Sunni (majority) Afghanistan, Sunni (majority) Pakistan, and the Sinni (majority) Caucasus. Also, defeating Iraq protects Kuwait, KSA and the Emirates -- suppliers of about 30% of our oil and the vast majority of the oil that maintains the economies and standards of living of the majority of the planet. Finally, creating a state friendly to the USA in the heart of the Arab oil countries will help ensure a long-term inhibition for other potentially adventurous despots in the region and gives some measure of hope to neighboring countries who are becoming democratic, like Jordan, Lebanon, and Kuwait while supporting established democracies like Israel and Turkey.

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Last edited by Botnst; 01-29-2007 at 06:27 PM.
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