I got an advance copy of FTL's response to Bush's speech tonight - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 08:17 AM
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The only way to leave Iran no more influential than it was before the invasion is to restore the Sunni-controlled government in Iraq. How do you propose we go about that, Jim?

And even then, Iran is strengthened by simply reacting to some very real threats from the U.S.

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post #42 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 08:26 AM
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Bring in other than the present thinking to the diplomatic table. Who might be Sunni sympathetic in the region and have an interest in that oil? Why just concede the Iranians have the upper hand? Or, maybe it should be a Kurdish-Sunni alliance?

Hey, GS, I don't have the answer, and from your tone, I am guessing you don't either. But that doesn't mean there isn't one. I watched the Discovery Channel story on the 100 year anniversary of the Wright Brothers' first flight. Those guys learned how to find out what was holding them back and then deal with it regardless of what the rest of their peers were bleating. This is the same issue. Conventional wisdom says the desired solution is unavailable, yet time keeps ticking along, and we are still there, and have an opportunity as well as responsibility to find the next best solution. Unless we do an order of magnitude or three more killing, and make the war much bigger, the military solution won't work. So, get started figuring out what the next best opportunity for everyone is, and then make that happen. Jim
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post #43 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
JE, you're the one who has been pushing for civil war in Iraq, cheering unprovoked mass murder, pushing for a stronger Iran and N. Korea, and encouraging terrorism worldwide. How have you been doing this? By supporting the U.S. invasion of Iraq. If you did not realize that these were obvious outcomes of this invasion, that is your failing.
GS, I beg to differ, I never supported this war, I did not want to see it happen but I did not sit on my hind laurels and not do anything. I did the samething then I have suggested to you gentlemen here lately. I knew I could not stop the US invasion and I invested in the possiblity that the US was going in to Iraq as they kept threatening to do. Now for a little bragging since you brought it up, I invested in a fund that Americans cannot invest in at Superfund - The Future of Investing - Home and I invested in there in Nov 02 USD 50,000 in the GCT USD and another 50,000 in the GCT Euro and if you know anything about international markets you can figure out how to invest in it. I sold right before the invasion in 03 and cleared 80,000 USD straight profit. Of course glasd I did becuase those funds have been shit since but you can look up the history for yourslef and see the run up it had before the war.

As for supporting the commander in cheif now, yes I do now because there is no other row to hoe. We are stuck so might as well stick with the devil you know rather than the 1 you don't and follow the signs and make some more money off of these political decisions. I cannot change Washington, only benefit from their decisions.
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post #44 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
You guys keep overlooking the fact that the Iraqis posed no new, or immediate or other danger to the US in March of 2003, so bombing them, regardless of the locations of the "targets" picked by the US Military, was senseless.
...

If we were not on their land forcing our way of life on them, they posed no danger to the United States, which made killing innocent people and calling it "collateral damage" just as unacceptable as this misguided mission in Iraq.

This is a hopelessly naive, myopic, dangerous view of the evidence and events before and after 9/11. I'd have thought you were above wielding the great pencil and eraser of revisionist history that had been bequeathed to FTL by God himself.

This assertion, taken as fact, is the root cause of the hostility embodied by the left, and the resultant confusion it creates within the right.

I'd be pissed if I knew any of those statements to be based in fact. Especially if this was the "whole story".

Just one problem - it isn't.

They're only as true as one's (rather demented) imagination and psyche WISH them to be. The more truth you find in them, the further from reality one walks.

I'm talking about root cause analysis of the hatred embodied by a select few here, not an analysis of what has happened since 9/11 and whether or not any given plans were carried out properly.

At the root of all these arguments lies the new, twisted view that we should never have been in Iraq in the first place and our continuing presence there is nothing more than bloodlust...as if to say we were motoring happily along, when suddenly and for no reason whatsoever, the driver decided to take us straight into a schoolyard and start mowing down children.

This is massively, psychopathically, clinically deranged thinking - worthy of study, shock therapy, medication, and use of a straight jacket. People who really honestly believe this kind of shit do not belong in public - they represent a danger to themselves and others. It's toxic. It is ignorant first, and unhealthy by virtually any measure. It fails tests of reason, decency, common sense, and historical fact.

The ongoing rhetorical spewing of this disgusting nonsense is so utterly appalling that it borders on the profane. It's over the line, it's tiresome, it's insulting to the collective intelligence and memories of everyone here, it's irresponsible, and it serves no positive purpose whatsoever. There is no moral high ground in the posession of one who believes such hateful, destructive things of ourselves and the efforts of our military men and women - this is the epitome of "pig wallowing".

You're known by the company you keep. It's becoming increasingly clear that FTL is off the deep end here, and is no longer capable of viewing history or current events through an objective lens. I'd caution against assuming his words are based in fact, or worthy of reinforcement by your otherwise intelligent and reasoned opinion - particularly on this subject - simply because the validity of your message may be drowned by those who have long memories and are prone to consider the source when reading these threads.
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post #45 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
At the root of all these arguments lies the new, twisted view that we should never have been in Iraq in the first place and our continuing presence there is nothing more than bloodlust...as if to say we were motoring happily along, when suddenly and for no reason whatsoever, the driver decided to take us straight into a schoolyard and start mowing down children.
That description is a bit over the top, but not entirely without merit. Our invasion of Iraq was a direct response to the 9/11 attack, in which Iraq took no part whatsoever. Try as you may, the dots do not connect, and the blood lust is just as you say...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #46 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
That description is a bit over the top, but not entirely without merit. Our invasion of Iraq was a direct response to the 9/11 attack, in which Iraq took no part whatsoever. Try as you may, the dots do not connect, and the blood lust is just as you say...
Well, I suppose you've joined the Xanax club as well then. Amazing how easily this crowd can suspend disbelief, conveniently forget history, and re-write it as they see fit when it serves to further their own favorite political beliefs.

Sickening.
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post #47 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 10:05 AM
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My position on Iraq has not changed since late 2001, when it became clear that nothing would dissuade the Bush administration from pursuing it. If you want to defend the invasion of one country as a response to a 9/11 attack that originated from another, you're on the wrong side of the sanity fence, my friend. Good luck with that.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #48 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Crossfire? She was hit with a cruise missle.
Your absolutely right, we should have carpet bombed the area, then there would not have been anything to take a picture of........
It's a bitch, but usually people die in a war, hard to believe that I know, but that's what happens.
Just think, if there was no war, that kid would still be alive, and Saddam and his two sons could have run her through a leaf shredder after they screwed her for a few hours, if she lived that long............

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post #49 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Crossfire? She was hit with a cruise missle.
So you believe that we conduct our miltary actions to maximize the death of children?

Just like the other side?
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post #50 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
You guys keep overlooking the fact that the Iraqis posed no new, or immediate or other danger to the US in March of 2003...
Had we arrested the 9-11 hijackers on 9-10, you idiots would be saying the same thing about them.
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