I got an advance copy of FTL's response to Bush's speech tonight - Page 10 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #91 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 02:44 PM
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A track record of destitute failure. OK, lets say they are smart. Then they must have known that the Iraq invasion would empower Iran, lead to civil war in Iraq, and create a breeding ground for terrorism. I knew it, and I'm certainly no genius, therefore they must have know it. Can you suggest why they would choose that future? Or am I just too stupid to understand?
You didn't "know" it, because it couldn't be known - only presumed. Assuming those risks merited discussion and were forseen, they had to be balanced with the risks both of doing nothing and of executing to plan.

Pessimism is easy. Leadership is not. Bush was interviewed on 60 Minutes, and freely said he was the Decider in Chief. If you want to lay blame, lay it with him - he welcomes it. What we will not suffer (thankfully) are the perils of indecision; those lead directly to the perception of weakness by our enemies, and weaknesses get exploited and attacked.

What you'll probably never know is the full extent of human lives, and not unimportantly - American lives - that have been saved by way of terrorist activities that never happened thanks to the efforts of this administration, this military, and our allies. The price in Iraq has been higher than anyone desires, but the safety it has purchased is invaluable. Now you can deny these facts all you like, and partake in the sick little circle-jerk of naysaying and mudslinging and tearing down of America from here to eternity - don't for a minute confuse yourself as righteous or vindicated in these beliefs. It's plainly evident that you're focusing on a microcosm of events ripped intentionally out of historical context as to highlight your degenerate exercise in futility. You continue down this path at the peril of your own reputation.
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post #92 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
A track record of destitute failure. OK, lets say they are smart. Then they must have known that the Iraq invasion would empower Iran, lead to civil war in Iraq, and create a breeding ground for terrorism. I knew it, and I'm certainly no genius, therefore they must have know it. Can you suggest why they would choose that future? Or am I just too stupid to understand?
Hey, It is pretty damned obvious to me if you look at this from today's vantage point and the perspective of the Sunni/Shiite "balance of power" (not to mention the Kurdish/Turkish balance and probably more I am forgetting)...

...that the situation is FUCKED UP.

Do you give Bush any credit for the fact that there have been no repeats of 9-11 on US soil? Even if you believe that the price has been to high to pay in lives and treasure?
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post #93 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 02:55 PM
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You didn't "know" it, because it couldn't be known - only presumed. Assuming those risks merited discussion and were forseen, they had to be balanced with the risks both of doing nothing and of executing to plan.
What are the risks involved with attacking a country incapable of causing us harm? No need to answer -- in fact all of those risks have been realized. If you want to believe that this invasion has prevented something from happening that has never happened before, that strikes me as quite a leap, sort of like predicting the first flying saucer attack from outer space.

In any case, I'm sure you're right. The fact that the Iraq fiasco has transpired just as predicted is sheer coincidence. I'm sure it's just a "give a monkey a typewriter thing"...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #94 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 02:58 PM
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Do you give Bush any credit for the fact that there have been no repeats of 9-11 on US soil? Even if you believe that the price has been to high to pay in lives and treasure?
Yes, he's done a fine job of stopping our prior practice of inviting known terrorists into our country and training them to harm us. Any steps beyond that are largely superfluous. Burp!!! Excuse me.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #95 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Explain to me how Iraq can deliver non-existent weapons to the U.S. mainland. Nuclear subs, ballistic missiles, what is this advanced delivery system that you and only you seem to know about?

And please explain how the detonation of a nuclear weapon over Pakistan would have fewer repercussions for the U.S. than an Iraqi goat farmer throwing a rock?

Be convincing now -- I grow impatient in my drunken stupor.
LOL...I did not accuse you of being drunk. Well, OK...I sort of did...

Sadaam in power = fertile ground for WMDs and terrorists to grow.

Washing a wound before it becomes infected is "smarter" than waiting until you need penicillin.

Please give me the criteria that would have justified our invasion of Iraq in your mind.

Make it up. If Sadaam claimed he was going to blow up NY, then a nuke went off killing 50,000 people? Would that do it?

Anything less?
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post #96 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, he's done a fine job of stopping our prior practice of inviting known terrorists into our country and training them to harm us. Any steps beyond that are largely superfluous. Burp!!! Excuse me.
The William Jefferson Clinton Blow Job Memorial Scholarship Program for Jihaadi Pilot Training?

Yeah. I am glad they cancelled that, too.

The tearing down of the Great Wall of Gerelick between the CIA and the FBI helped us, too.
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post #97 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:06 PM
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A world expert in biological warfare, and a former United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq , say no but Dave says yes .
Washing a wound before it becomes infected is "smarter" than waiting until you need penicillin. Didn't Himmer say that , I guess your just to smart for us Dave , I'm going have to come over to your side Dave and become a Nazi .
Thanks for enlighting me , I feel free now .
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post #98 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:08 PM
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Hey, It is pretty damned obvious to me if you look at this from today's vantage point and the perspective of the Sunni/Shiite "balance of power" (not to mention the Kurdish/Turkish balance and probably more I am forgetting)...
That situation was well-known to many, including many members of the Bush administration who were relieved of their duties for naysaying. A brutal Sunni minority savaging a Shiite majority that would be left empowered by our invasion to collude with Iran and brutalize their previous tormentors. Like I said, it was an obvious outcome. You may not have known about all that, and that's fine. You had no responsibility to know it. But Bush and Cheney did, and I cannot understand how they could have possibly failed to see the inevitability of civil war.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #99 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:16 PM
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I am a conservative, and nation building is a fool's errand. Conservatives do not engage in nation building.

Well atleast we agree on something.
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post #100 of 152 (permalink) Old 01-24-2007, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Von Vorschlag
A world expert in biological warfare, and a former United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq , say no but Dave says yes .
Washing a wound before it becomes infected is "smarter" than waiting until you need penicillin. Didn't Himmer say that , I guess your just to smart for us Dave , I'm going have to come over to your side Dave and become a Nazi .
Thanks for enlighting me , I feel free now .
You seem to be equating innocent Jews with Sadaam and his henchmen.

Not a shock since your avatar is a scarier than shit flaming skull, I guess.

Who is the nazi, Nazi? I can't believe I have sunk to your level. You nazi, you.
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