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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Cheney admits expanded military spying role inside US

Cheney admits expanded military spying role inside US

US Vice-President Dick Cheney has admitted that the US military and CIA have been spying on the financial dealings of Americans -- intelligence gathering normally authorized only by civilian policing agencies.

The New York Times broke the story overnight, reporting that the Department of Defense and Central Intelligence Agency had been using "national security letters" to obtain the banking and credit records of Americans and foreigners suspected of terrorist activities in the United States.

The US military and the CIA have long been restricted in their spying activities inside the United States and are barred from conducting traditional domestic law enforcement work in the country.
But Cheney confirmed the main outlines of the report and defended the Pentagon and CIA activities as legal and necessary to protect military installations inside the United States.
"This is a dramatic story, but I think it's important for people to understand here this is a legitimate security effort that's been underway for a long time and it does not represent a new departure from the standpoint of our efforts to protect ourselves against terrorist attack," he said on Fox News Sunday.
"The defense department gets involved because we've got hundreds of bases inside the United States that are potential terrorist targets," he said.
He called the spying "a perfectly legitimate activity" that the military and CIA had authority to carry out going back "three or four decades" and more recently confirmed in the Patriot Act adopted following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
"It doesn't violate people's civil rights, and it's an institution that receives one of these national security letters disagrees with it, they're free to go to court to try to stop its execution," he said.
Citing unnamed intelligence officials, The New York Times said the Pentagon and CIA actions were part of an aggressive expansion by the military into domestic intelligence gathering which is traditionally the realm of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

The newly revealed activities involve using national security letters -- a form of subpoena -- to gain access to financial records from American companies, the Times said.
Banks, credit card companies and other financial institutions receiving the letters usually have turned over documents voluntarily, allowing investigators to examine the financial assets and transactions of American military personnel and civilians, the paper wrote.
The letters "provide tremendous leads to follow and often with which to corroborate other evidence in the context of counterespionage and counterterrorism," the paper quotes Major Patrick Ryder, a Pentagon spokesman, as saying.
While they would not offer details about specific cases, officials told the Times the military had issued the letters to obtain financial records on a government contractor with unexplained wealth as well as a chaplain at the US detention camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The chaplain was mistakenly suspected of aiding prisoners at the facility.

BREITBART.COM - Cheney admits expanded military spying role inside US

Probably uses BW OT as a way to get leads and targets on who to track.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 10:49 AM
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Have to disagree with Cheney on this one. After Lincoln's war-making on citizens, Congress put in place a whole bunch of laws restricting federal military's domestic application. Posse comitatus laws. This violates, at the very least, the spirit of these laws.

Why are the FBI and Treasury Department not the folks leading the investigations?

No, this is a bad thing. Time for Congress to step in.

B
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Have to disagree with Cheney on this one. After Lincoln's war-making on citizens, Congress put in place a whole bunch of laws restricting federal military's domestic application. Posse comitatus laws. This violates, at the very least, the spirit of these laws.

Why are the FBI and Treasury Department not the folks leading the investigations?

No, this is a bad thing. Time for Congress to step in.

B
The FBI is definitely the appropriate investigative arm of our government. If the communication and information sharing between agencies thing is working properly (not likely), this shouldn't be hard to do.

This is also a time for both parties to set aside the pissing contest and come up with some rules which permit the monitoring for patterns of communication and financial transactions which were recognized in hindsight of 9-11, along with rules for when big brother can drill deeper into those patterns for evidence, and rules for appropriate oversight by the judiciary. I don't buy into the assertion that our current administration has more sinister political motivations for the monitoring, however the opportunity for motivations to change must be eliminated, as I don't trust either side to stay pure. I am mindful, however, that the enemy was and is amongst us, and I do want them rooted out before they strike again. Both sides must be committed to that objective in order for it to work.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Have to disagree with Cheney on this one. After Lincoln's war-making on citizens, Congress put in place a whole bunch of laws restricting federal military's domestic application. Posse comitatus laws. This violates, at the very least, the spirit of these laws.

Why are the FBI and Treasury Department not the folks leading the investigations?

No, this is a bad thing. Time for Congress to step in.

B
Agreed.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Have to disagree with Cheney on this one. After Lincoln's war-making on citizens, Congress put in place a whole bunch of laws restricting federal military's domestic application. Posse comitatus laws. This violates, at the very least, the spirit of these laws.

Why are the FBI and Treasury Department not the folks leading the investigations?

No, this is a bad thing. Time for Congress to step in.

B
If you had bothered to watch Michael Moore's movie, you would know that he exposed this, along with the rest of Bush's neo-fascist agenda, three years ago.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by edfreeman
The FBI is definitely the appropriate investigative arm of our government. If the communication and information sharing between agencies thing is working properly (not likely), this shouldn't be hard to do.

This is also a time for both parties to set aside the pissing contest and come up with some rules which permit the monitoring for patterns of communication and financial transactions which were recognized in hindsight of 9-11, along with rules for when big brother can drill deeper into those patterns for evidence, and rules for appropriate oversight by the judiciary. I don't buy into the assertion that our current administration has more sinister political motivations for the monitoring, however the opportunity for motivations to change must be eliminated, as I don't trust either side to stay pure. I am mindful, however, that the enemy was and is amongst us, and I do want them rooted out before they strike again. Both sides must be committed to that objective in order for it to work.
We already have. It's called "The FISA Court". Bush has repeatedly violated the FISA Act, a felony, and an impeachable offense. You guys are just waking up to all this? My God, the brainwashing is starting to wear off. I saw it in the Senate hearings this week - Republican Senators actually asking questions. You people are amazing.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 01:32 PM
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There should be as little government involvement as possible in peoples lives. Also as others have mentioned spying on the people these departments are supposed to protect is wrong. With information sharing and the patriot act there is already a situation within the US where the FBI has far too much power to investigate individuals in the name of "terrorism".
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
We already have. It's called "The FISA Court". Bush has repeatedly violated the FISA Act, a felony, and an impeachable offense. You guys are just waking up to all this? My God, the brainwashing is starting to wear off. I saw it in the Senate hearings this week - Republican Senators actually asking questions. You people are amazing.
And there is dispute (aka - the pissing contest) about what the limits are. The rhetoric needs to be removed from the process and a real discussion about how to monitor for whatever those patterns of communication were which preceded 9-11 needs to be done. It will take a commitment and an objectivity to figure that out and I doubt you'll be invited to the meeting.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
If you had bothered to watch Michael Moore's movie, you would know that he exposed this, along with the rest of Bush's neo-fascist agenda, three years ago.
Are you sure it was your buddy Moore who did that? I heard it was his alter ego...
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-14-2007, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
If you had bothered to watch Michael Moore's movie, you would know that he exposed this, along with the rest of Bush's neo-fascist agenda, three years ago.
Hahahaha!
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