40% See 2007 War With Iran As Second Carrier Deployed - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: So with the 2nd Carrier moving in ot the Gulf, do we attack this year
Attack Iran - Airstrike only 3 30.00%
Attack Iran - Airstrrikes and land Invasions & Occupation 0 0%
Not Attack and forget about the Middle East 2 20.00%
Not attack but support Israel in an Air Attack 3 30.00%
Shit and fall back in it 2 20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 10:26 PM
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Because of G.W. & Co's infinite wisdome, the U.S. has neither the resources nor the troops for a possible Iran Invasion.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Teutone
Because of G.W. & Co's infinite wisdome, the U.S. has neither the resources nor the troops for a possible Iran Invasion.
Nor the Balls for the political and public backlash that would follow, but a few airstikes would be a different story
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140
God forbid anyone attacks Israel.
Right you are DestroyerW140

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Teutone
Because of G.W. & Co's infinite wisdome, the U.S. has neither the resources nor the troops for a possible Iran Invasion.
Believe what you want.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 03:30 PM
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 03:59 PM
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did you use that for a tampon?
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 04:01 PM
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from: Press Briefing by Scott McClellan

Q Is the President in favor of international inspection of Israel's nuclear arsenal, which is pretty well known?

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't know that I agree with that, the premise of your question. But the United States has a longstanding position of universal adherence to the treaty on the nonproliferation of nuclear weapons. That has been our longstanding position --

Q They never signed it.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- and that is universal adherence. Well, we have urged all states that have not yet adhered to the treaty to do so, and to accept the IAEA safeguards on nuclear activities that would come with it.

Q Are we trying to persuade Israel to sign it, and to be open to inspection?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think that, one, in terms of specifics about the Israeli government, you need to refer those questions to the Israeli government.

Q No, no, I'm asking our position.

MR. McCLELLAN: And I've told you that the long held position of the United States is the universal adherence to the nonproliferation treaty.

Your thoughts
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Musikmann

For one thing, I don't think Iraq ever directly threatened Israel, that not why we are there. However, Iran's president has made a lot of defamatory comments about Jews and Israel. Iran is enriching uranium, or at least trying to, with the probable and eventual production, of weapons-grade Plutonium. Israel has nuclear weapons, and certainly the capability of destroying the Iranian installations (using their nukes, or otherwise). All I meant to convey, is that we will go to bat for Israel, if they feel threatened by Iran.

I have been opposed the the Iraqi invasion since Day 1, but I disagree that we don't have the military might to sustain 2 simultaneous engagements in the Middle East. We do have a few friends among the world's nations, but not very many.

Like you wrote "We need to get on the ball and work smarter", I certainly agree. But in my mind, that means the deployment of more smart weapons, and a lesser dependence on our ground forces. I'm not advocating nuclear weapons against either nation, because that could easily spell out WW3.

The US has the might to do whatever it wants, but not as it is currently configured. When run properly, the US economy and armed forces and its public combine to form the greatest war machine in planetary history. But it must be skillfully managed to make this come about, or circumstance must occur coupled with good leadership to achieve it. The first president to discover this was Lincoln. It took him two years to get it right - mostly at the urging of his two top generals, Grant and Sherman. It took a motivating idea - saving the union and ending slavery. It took a total commitment of the industrial base, which came about by unprecedented taxation (the first income tax was in the Civil War) that financed the building of an enormous manufacturing base dedicated to war and to the arming and equipping of vast armies that were they themselves factories, assembly lines of mass death. It took a populace willing to "bear any burden, and pay any price" as FDR put it when he followed the same model in WWII. Without all those ingredients, we simply have failed time and again.

The most unfortunate thing about George Bush's Presidency is the opportunity lost in the aftermath of 9-11 for dealing with Iran. Americans are stupid when they judge the effort required to defeat another country they find difficult to locate on a map. We think they are all going to be like Haiti, Panama and Grenada. Our leaders, on the other hand, are generally (or supposedly in Bush's case) better informed. In military circles, it is well understood that the real enemy of the United States is Islamic Fundamentalism, whether Sunni or Shiite. There was not much enthusiasm for invading Iraq, a secular socialist state that had little to do with the problem, and even more importantly, lacked the industrial and academic base to be much of a threat. To us, threats are nations that can do their own version of what makes us win - a combination of government, the will of the people and industrial base. The Russians were such adversaries, while the Iraqis were not. Iran on the other hand, is. It is a modern industrial nation run by religious lunatics, with an academic base the produces some of the best mathematicians and physicists on the planet, a lethal combination in a nuclear world. It has large sympathetic minorities living in Muslim countries across the world that can act as a fifth column (as we are well seeing in Iraq) and it's religion is a destablizing force in the other big Muslim nuclear power, Pakistan. When ultimately combined with Shiite Iraq, it will control 60% of the world's petroleum reserves. Their leadership hates us, and begs their God for our destruction.

In the book "Fiasco", Tom Ricks explains all of this, and then tells of how the generals who know these things came to Bush after 9-11, generals who saw the military problem at hand to be the smashing of Islamic Fundamentalism. It saw the enemy as Iran, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan. It urged the mobilization of millions of men, and putting the US war economy in motion, a direct attack on Somalia and Yemen's Al Queda camps, the use of incredible force in Afghanistan, nuclear if necessary, and a war so savage that Iran and Pakistan would be offered a stark choice as the next targets if they so choose to continue with their nuclear weapons programs. It urged the rationing of oil and the raising of armies. All the ingredients for victory were there - the support of our allies, the emotional desire of the American People to destroy our enemies, the huge economic potential waiting to be unleashed, and the issues of righteousness on our side.

In what Ricks calls "the most profligate act of a US President in the history of the United States", Bush, in an act of dereliction of duty unprecedented in our history, told them to shelve the plan, and plan for an invasion of Iraq instead. Top generals who were stunned by this resigned or were forced to retire, replaced by incompetents like Pace, Franks and Meyers, all of whoms major reason for selection was their desire to lick Rumsfeld's boots, a fact Mr. Ricks eloquently reports as the seeds for the greatest military disaster in US history since Cold Harbor. Instead of acting as the leader of the American People, Bush became leader of The GOP Faction, a bunch of yellow-ribbon bedecked morons who browbeated and shouted down any opposition as they did their best to run this country on fear instead of on righteous indignation. The Faction demanded tax cuts and a fool's war of death in Iraq and cheap gas at home while our real enemies in Pakistan, Iran, Somalia and Yemen have grown stronger. Now the question is the invasion of Iran. Bush has lost the magic recipe. There is no broad desire in the US anymore for vengeance for 9-11 since it now seems to almost everyone that our fraudulently misdirected vengeance in Iraq resulted in the needless deaths of our sons and daughters and wreaked a Hitler-like assault on the people of Iraq. We no longer feel righteous. The Faction continues to exist, demanding that Greed and Lust for Money override our need for a War Economy. Our Armed Forces as they stand can barely muster another 20,000 troops for more of the same in Iraq. Sadly, it will take another 9-11 for anything to happen now.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 01-07-2007 at 04:54 PM.
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