John Murtha promises to kick ass, take names, over Iraq - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cmitchprint
Among the things that need investigating:
1. Who are the persons at the CIA who gave/withheld vital information to determine if Iraq had WMD's and where they disposed of them if they did (Syria?)
2. Who are the persons at the CIA who willingfully provided false information to the Clinton AND Bush administration about WMD's in Iraq that may not have existed?
3. Who at the CIA had an interest in the invasion of Iraq so that they provided this false info?
4. Why is it that the Bush administration is taking ALL the blame for acting on false information that dates back more than a decade?
5. Why, all of a sudden, are those who supported the invasion now distancing themselves and contradicting their own statements now that the War in Iraq isn't going well?
6. If the information provided to the Bush and Clinton administrations is now determined as false, why are efforts not taken to weed out the persons responsible?
7. IF THE WAR IN IRAQ IS WRONG NOW, IT MUST HAVE BEEN WRONG FROM THE GET GO. SO WHY DID BUSH RECEIVE COMPLETE, UNCONDITIONAL PERMISSION FROM BOTH PARTIES OF CONGRESS TO INVADE IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Yes, there needs to be investigations but I'm afraid that in doing so, the investigators will seek to cover up their own mistakes and asses before pursuing just the Bush administration. The blame is on both sides of the aisle.
I agree, there is a root cause analysis due, and a partisan witch hunt won't measure up. The nation needs to learn from mistakes so as not to repeat them. It is not sufficient for one political party to use them to climb on top of the other politcal party. While my view of the situation is much less colored to spread the fault for Iraq as wide and thinly as yours - Clinton apparently felt the data from the CIA did not warrant an invasion of Iraq, while Bush did, which is the real issue at hand - I do recognize that both parties' overwhelmingly chose not to do their duty as the elected body comprising the Legislative Branch. If there was more to this than just being mislead by circumstances, that needs to be addressed clearly and definitively. If it was just circumstances, that also needs to be addressed clearly and definitively.

Jim
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cmitchprint
Yes, there needs to be investigations but I'm afraid that in doing so, the investigators will seek to cover up their own mistakes and asses before pursuing just the Bush administration. The blame is on both sides of the aisle.
I agree the blame is on both sides of the aisle. While the mark doesn't share equal responsibility with the perpetrator of the con, both are responsible to some degree. They all have a responsibility to do what is in the best interest of our country, and to set their personal agendas aside. In this, all who have supported this invasion have failed as stewards of our government, and should be encouraged by the voters to seek employment elsewhere. The same holds true for any individual who voted to enact the Patriot Act without even bothering to read the document.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 10:22 AM
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Talk about putting the chickens in charge of the fox holes...
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 10:43 AM
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Talk about putting the chickens in charge of the fox holes...
Jaybaugh, why do you hate America? Why are you so dedicated to promoting mediocrity, or worse, for our country?
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
I agree, there is a root cause analysis due, and a partisan witch hunt won't measure up. The nation needs to learn from mistakes so as not to repeat them. It is not sufficient for one political party to use them to climb on top of the other politcal party. While my view of the situation is much less colored to spread the fault for Iraq as wide and thinly as yours - Clinton apparently felt the data from the CIA did not warrant an invasion of Iraq, while Bush did, which is the real issue at hand - I do recognize that both parties' overwhelmingly chose not to do their duty as the elected body comprising the Legislative Branch. If there was more to this than just being mislead by circumstances, that needs to be addressed clearly and definitively. If it was just circumstances, that also needs to be addressed clearly and definitively.

Jim
Well said, but do remember that Clinton didn't have two skyscrapers knocked over while he was president. And no, I'm not linking Iraq to 9-11, but Bush was genuinely motivated to start rooting out terrorist states, rattling the saber, talking about axes of evil and what not. Running off the Taliban took no effort, Iraq was "clearly" the next lowest hanging fruitcake, getting in and out should be a breeze and send a message to the other fruitcakes to straighten up or you're next . . .
There was plenty of hard evidence that Saddam had possessed WMD's, hell, he'd used them against his own people and shot off pretty big bottle rockets (SCUDS?) in the first Gulf War. I would think that our legislators on both sides of the aisle believed he had them to begin with, not requiring any further data. Saying the information provided by the administration is what led them to this conclusion is a smokescreen. And (get ready, liberals, here's where you'll want to start quoting me . . . ), I believe that Bush believed he had them. I don't buy into any conspiracy theories or more sinister motivations for going into this war.
Clearly, the execution was botched. We wouldn't be having this thread (or several preceding threads) had we gone in, kicked ass, secured the country, set the people up to govern themselves, and gotten out in a year or two, WMD's or not. The intended message to the other fruitcakes would have been loud and clear as well. This is where the administration proved to be incompetent, IMHO.
A root cause is definitely appropriate for the intelligence failures and for the planning and execution of the war effort. A partisan witch hunt which tries to prove or insinuate conspiracy theories will not improve our understanding of these failures, and if the Dems get into one, it will make it all too easy for the Republicans to regain control of the government.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
Jaybaugh, why do you hate America? Why are you so dedicated to promoting mediocrity, or worse, for our country?
Jim
Seems to me you got that backward smitty--being the expert on mediocrity and leader of the Blame America First gang, you really do seem to see the world in a mirror-image.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by edfreeman
Well said, but do remember that Clinton didn't have two skyscrapers knocked over while he was president. And no, I'm not linking Iraq to 9-11, but Bush was genuinely motivated to start rooting out terrorist states, rattling the saber, talking about axes of evil and what not. Running off the Taliban took no effort, Iraq was "clearly" the next lowest hanging fruitcake, getting in and out should be a breeze and send a message to the other fruitcakes to straighten up or you're next . . .
There was plenty of hard evidence that Saddam had possessed WMD's, hell, he'd used them against his own people and shot off pretty big bottle rockets (SCUDS?) in the first Gulf War. I would think that our legislators on both sides of the aisle believed he had them to begin with, not requiring any further data. Saying the information provided by the administration is what led them to this conclusion is a smokescreen. And (get ready, liberals, here's where you'll want to start quoting me . . . ), I believe that Bush believed he had them. I don't buy into any conspiracy theories or more sinister motivations for going into this war.
Clearly, the execution was botched. We wouldn't be having this thread (or several preceding threads) had we gone in, kicked ass, secured the country, set the people up to govern themselves, and gotten out in a year or two, WMD's or not. The intended message to the other fruitcakes would have been loud and clear as well. This is where the administration proved to be incompetent, IMHO.
A root cause is definitely appropriate for the intelligence failures and for the planning and execution of the war effort. A partisan witch hunt which tries to prove or insinuate conspiracy theories will not improve our understanding of these failures, and if the Dems get into one, it will make it all too easy for the Republicans to regain control of the government.
We did go in and kick ass. Your basic assumptions are your problem. The War in Iraq was decided way before 9-11, it was merely an excuse. It was a presumptous, conceited, moronic enterprise from the day they thought it up in 1998 until the day they conned the Congress and the American people into going along. There are no "conspiracy theories" here, only blatant criminality not much better than any con man would pull off. And I could care less about "understanding our failures" - I want JUSTICE. JUSTICE for murdered Iraqis. JUSTICE for our fighting men sent to die for a lie. Murtha's role in this is to develop evidence, and it's about damn time.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
We did go in and kick ass. Your basic assumptions are your problem. The War in Iraq was decided way before 9-11, it was merely an excuse. It was a presumptous, conceited, moronic enterprise from the day they thought it up in 1998 until the day they conned the Congress and the American people into going along. There are no "conspiracy theories" here, only blatant criminality not much better than any con man would pull off. And I could care less about "understanding our failures" - I want JUSTICE. JUSTICE for murdered Iraqis. JUSTICE for our fighting men sent to die for a lie. Murtha's role in this is to develop evidence, and it's about damn time.
You may "want JUSTICE", but what you need is a blowjob and a prozac with a scotch chaser. You can't see beyond your own hatred and prejudice, as usual. Thank God ballistic fist fuckers like you aren't actually in charge of anything, else we'd all be glowing in the dark.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 02:08 PM
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Intelligence Oversight and Democrats. How much classified material are they going to compromise to try to get revenge?

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-05-2007, 02:11 PM
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Intelligence Oversight and Democrats. How much classified material are they going to compromise to try to get revenge?
About this much.

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