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post #51 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:55 AM
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I would disagree with you on that Jayhawk. While annuties in general are not wise, if you look to quality companies, MassMutual, New York Life, NorthWestern you can find very good annuities with great rates, features and subaccounts. Annuities have their place and are not the end all. However I have found MANY situations where they are the best best for a given situation. IE a large inheritance where some of the money is to be put away for retirement. Cant put that into an IRA or any other tax deferred vehicle. Too annuties avoid probate, allow investments into many M/F companies(diversification) without having to be in a wrap account which is more expensive than an annuity.

The Fool is a great place for advise, however that being said they are pandering to the masses giving GENERAL advise. One recommendation is not for everyone. Too again they are looking at annuities in GENERAL. Take Allianz, they are the biggest annuity company out there, however IMHO they are also the biggest sleezes too that sell the majority of INDEXED annuities.

Lets look at fixed annuitys for a moment. A retiree has a large sum in CD's that are rolled over every six months and are not being used for income. Why pay INCOME taxes on that when it can be placed in a QUALITY fixed annuity and get better rates and is only taxed on removal. So every year the money is in the fixed account they are COMPOUNDING their gains. And if they need the money, most quality companies have a 5 year surrender and allow 20% withdrawl rates per year without penalty.

TIAA-CREF, have you looked at their shitty returns via Morningstar or Thompson Financial. They have some of the WORST funds out there. They are regularly in the bottom quartile in returns in like catagory. No thank you. I would rather pay a higher fee if the net return is greater.

We could go on and on and on.

Truth be told Prof, go with MPT(Modern Portfolio Theory), put together an asset allocation that fits your risk and stick with it. It will win over these guys who shift their allocation over and over again. Review every six months against benchmarks and make changes as needed. IE if your growth fund hasnt been performing well against the bench, find out why and if necessary go with a different growth fund from another company.

Theres my two cents. Im ready for rebuttals!

Chris

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post #52 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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I have TIAA Cref from work but no annuities in there

BadBenz says:TIAA-CREF, have you looked at their shitty returns via Morningstar or Thompson Financial. They have some of the WORST funds out there. They are regularly in the bottom quartile in returns in like catagory. No thank you. I would rather pay a higher fee if the net return is greater.

I agree. This whole year my TIAA Cref returned something like 1%

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post #53 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Take it back about 9% of my portfolio with TIAA Cref is annuities they just call them "Guaranteed", the bastards
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post #54 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
I agree with both of your views. Jayhawk I am starting to gain respect for ya I must be getting more sex or something!
Annuities are also good for endowments and scholarships but like BadBenz says, the skimming (deep that is) of the top is there and your equity barely keeps up with inflation. That's too steep of a price to hedge market downturn
That's worrysome... That you're gaining respect for me, and that you may be getting more sex!

CNBC has a series of short videos looking at the best of 2006 & 2007. I think you will find them very interesting, and helpful from an investing point of view: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839263/site/14081545/ Especially check out the video on the Best of 2006 w/ Erin Burnett. They are all worth watching.

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post #55 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BadBenz94
I would disagree with you on that Jayhawk. While annuties in general are not wise, if you look to quality companies, MassMutual, New York Life, NorthWestern you can find very good annuities with great rates, features and subaccounts. Annuities have their place and are not the end all. However I have found MANY situations where they are the best best for a given situation. IE a large inheritance where some of the money is to be put away for retirement. Cant put that into an IRA or any other tax deferred vehicle. Too annuties avoid probate, allow investments into many M/F companies(diversification) without having to be in a wrap account which is more expensive than an annuity.

The Fool is a great place for advise, however that being said they are pandering to the masses giving GENERAL advise. One recommendation is not for everyone. Too again they are looking at annuities in GENERAL. Take Allianz, they are the biggest annuity company out there, however IMHO they are also the biggest sleezes too that sell the majority of INDEXED annuities.

Lets look at fixed annuitys for a moment. A retiree has a large sum in CD's that are rolled over every six months and are not being used for income. Why pay INCOME taxes on that when it can be placed in a QUALITY fixed annuity and get better rates and is only taxed on removal. So every year the money is in the fixed account they are COMPOUNDING their gains. And if they need the money, most quality companies have a 5 year surrender and allow 20% withdrawl rates per year without penalty.

TIAA-CREF, have you looked at their shitty returns via Morningstar or Thompson Financial. They have some of the WORST funds out there. They are regularly in the bottom quartile in returns in like catagory. No thank you. I would rather pay a higher fee if the net return is greater.

We could go on and on and on.

Truth be told Prof, go with MPT(Modern Portfolio Theory), put together an asset allocation that fits your risk and stick with it. It will win over these guys who shift their allocation over and over again. Review every six months against benchmarks and make changes as needed. IE if your growth fund hasnt been performing well against the bench, find out why and if necessary go with a different growth fund from another company.

Theres my two cents. Im ready for rebuttals!

Chris
You make some excellent points and I don't think we disagree on most things. I should point out, however, that I could make an argument for taking poison, but I do not recommend it generally. I will not get into a tit-for-tat, but from a general investing point of view I would NOT recommend annuities, from any retailer, no matter how good they are. As you point out, there may be some exceptions when one is talking about retirement. From what I read on this thread, however, I think most here are interested in making as much money as possible, as relatively safe as possible--and will be happy to pay the taxes on that money. I don't just feel that annuities are usually bad, I think that mutual funds are generally not a good idea either. If the folks here want to really get the biggest bang for the buck, I think most would do well to look at ETFs! That is another big topic and I will not get into details here, but this is perhaps one of the best vehicles for serious investors, regardless of their tolerance for risk or amount of investment capital.

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post #56 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 02:34 PM
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I have TIAA CREF from work but no annuities in there

BadBenz says:TIAA-CREF, have you looked at their shitty returns via Morningstar or Thompson Financial. They have some of the WORST funds out there. They are regularly in the bottom quartile in returns in like catagory. No thank you. I would rather pay a higher fee if the net return is greater.

I agree. This whole year my TIAA Cref returned something like 1%
TIAA just came out w/ a series of mutual funds a couple years ago, but if you have retirement funds in there, they are almost certainly annuities. All TIAA-CREF accounts were, up until recently, annuities. I also do not agree w/ them being low performance. I have had all my CREF $$ in two annuities (Stock and Global) for many years and those funds have almost doubled (42.1%) since 2002. And I have not made a single contribution to those annuities in that time. Their retirement "fund" are annuities, and though some are dogs (show me a company w/ no dogs), one only has to look at relative performance among "funds" to figure out how to make money. And over a period of 25 years, at fees of less than 0.05% one can make a lot of money.

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post #57 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
That's worrysome... That you're gaining respect for me, and that you may be getting more sex!

CNBC has a series of short videos looking at the best of 2006 & 2007. I think you will find them very interesting, and helpful from an investing point of view: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839263/site/14081545/ Especially check out the video on the Best of 2006 w/ Erin Burnett. They are all worth watching.
Thanks Jay , but the website is slow or something. It's not opening.
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post #58 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Today I made almost 5% on apple and sold. That was a nice little ride.
How's your invesment day folks?
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post #59 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 03:27 PM
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Thanks Jay , but the website is slow or something. It's not opening.
CNBC is often slow after the market closes on most days. Everyone wants to see how much they made or lost and why so they all jump on about this time of day. Try it later, it is really worth a look if you are thinking about what to do in '07 and where to make your big bets.

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post #60 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 03:39 PM
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Today I made almost 5% on apple and sold. That was a nice little ride.
How's your invesment day folks?
Haven't checked today. Will probably do that on Sunday or Monday and see how the year went. 5% is great! Have you had it long? I see it is up almost 4% just today! I think that is because it is starting to look like Jobs may get away w/ the options backdating scheme. Apple allegedly gave him options in '01 w/out authorization from the board, and later falsified related documents.

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