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post #41 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 05:50 AM
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oh the shame
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post #42 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 09:16 AM
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Hey professor......sounds like you may be dusting off some yellow stars.

You seem to lack the understanding of loyalty needed to obtain and maintain allies.
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post #43 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by my90300E
Hey professor......sounds like you may be dusting off some yellow stars.

You seem to lack the understanding of loyalty needed to obtain and maintain allies.
I have no problem with loyalty, it's the cold cash part I object to...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #44 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 09:45 AM
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post #45 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 10:31 AM
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Israel:
- only democratic country in middle east when rest are led by oil garch dictators
- it gives almost full rights to its citizens regardless of their origin.i bet a few sucide bombers have got releatives in tel aviv living in peace with israeli citizenship
- It does not threaten its neighbours with open aggression and verbal attacks like Iram
- it does not arms the rivals groups of its oppoents to push them into civil war..some things arabs keeps doing with PLO and Hammas
- it does not award 25K USD reward to sucide terrorist families
- it has hard working creative citizens
- it does beg and drag on oil money like arabs..and knows when to cut off and stand up for itself

Iraq war:
A message from USA to Gulf Oil garch.. take lesson and step down.. since war of Iraq, a lot of political and economical improvements have been suddenly made.. They are all talking about bring government closer to public, human right and women rights blah blah blah...America may fail at iraq war but it definately has long lasting effects on neighbours. Almost everyone understands why these oi garch dictators are suddenly scared and for the first time talking about acceding their throne into more public control rather than their brother and inlaws rivalry..

America is clearing winning the hearts of the oil rich gulf here..iraq is a small price to pay..after all..they will nod with the americans once the oil money flows into the pockets of "democratic parliment of Iraq"

Fuel economy!! whats that??
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post #46 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 10:32 AM
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Ok, what's a "garch"?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #47 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=cascade]Professor,

I really learned some new things today about Israel and Palestine and I thank you, but after reading your reply to what I said I have the feeling your tilt on the whole thing is based on some anti Isaeli thinking ( I think)
Well yes whenever someone approaches a taboo subject like this they are automatically either labeled anti-Semite or simply siding one side of the issue. I expected this, so I don't take it personal, this is the norm in our country when we debate this issue. Do you now understand how that lobby has succeeded? The extent of free speech does have limits when we look into our relationship with Israel a little deeper than what is sold to us.
I really didn'tt know the Israeli lobby was the ONLY one in the USA. However, you say that Neyanyahu's goal is to goad the USA into invading Iran.
Yes, you can google all you want about Natanyahu on Iraq and Iraq. He uses basically the same speech and methods for both cases. Last night he was on CNN, did you watch him cry to the public that he is not being heard? I felt really bad for him and I went straight to the phone to call my congressamn to send more of our kids to fight his fight.

OK, let's assume for the moment it is true for the sake of argument at least. Why would he want to do it? To me that's an easy one, he has heard Ahmadinejad say in Iran that he wants Israel wiped off the face of the map. You hear some guy who's the leader of Iran, who is busy makeing his own nukes say that about you, wouldn't YOU be scared too - and do everything you could to ensure it didn't happen, to ensure your country Israel isn't wiped out, in sheer numbers of population you have a small fraction of their army, so maybe you'd ask your friends to help you, and if that didn't work, try to get them by persuasio to help you? So, then he's trying to convince Bush to help him save Israel from extermination by invading the place threatening him, which is Iran.

A crude ploy perhaps, but I dont blame him for trying it.
At our expenses of course. We are not talking about a simple invasion, an in and out then thank you mam. Have we not learnt a thing from Iraq? Do you think the only card on the table is war? Iran is not an angel but it's not a real threat to us, maybe to Israel but not the USA. Again, that's my opinion so don't count on my assesment. Having said that, where are all the billions of dollars we gave to Israel to build itself to a mighty power? Can't they use them now to defend themselves on their own? Were they humbled by Hezbollah that they have no real will to fight anymore? I guess it's easier to send our boys instead




I've never been to that part of the world personally, (though once back in about '83 I had a chance to go R/T for $600 on a presbyterian church trip because Israel was desparate for tourists that Christmas, a very heavy terrorist season was happening at the time. So I didn't go. I get the idea either you have gone or know it lots better than me.
I have, my step dad is a US government employee and we traveled as kid for different assignments. Then years later I worked in that region for several international agnecies. So I know what I am talking about and have seen the way they live and how they are treated.


But even if so, I doubt your claim that Palestine was set up as a concentration camp for Palestinians by the Jews. That sounds unbelievable (if you meant that.)
Just think about it. We are talking about the Gaza strip. All movemnet in or out even to Egypt is controlled. There no more Jews in the strip for a reason. That reason was not to give more land to the Palestinians it was to make sure that whenever Israel hit targets inside of Gaza no Jews will be killed in retalliation. So the intent is clear.

They had, in times of peace, the right to travel freely to Israel and Jerusalem, subject only to security checks for ID and hidden bombs and weapons, sounds OK to me....
Not really, that's another fable. Apartheid is the rule there, you don't belive me go read Jimmy Carter's new book.

You glossed over someof the other points I made (Im only working here on one window so I cant go back and forth point by point) so I guess you don't dispute them. One is that indeed the Palestineans are treated like dirt in Saudi, they are Both Arabs,k right, (or are the Sunni Wahabi sect different and superior to the Palestinians, and therefore dirt) so the Saudis with their millions and millions, could give them good jobs, education and a shot at a decent life in Saudi, even if if was 2nd class to their millionaire lifestyle? They could, but didn't, happy to let them stand by and suffer, and become embittered terrorists and hostage takers.
Yes but you have to understand the Saudis don't see Palestinians as Saudis. Logical no? They are Arabs but each belong in different region. Let me give you an example, suppose we get kicked out of the US by Mexicans, can we go to England and ask them to automatically make us British citizens? Can we use up their resources because we claim British roots?



And just for the record, let's be CLEAR that Palestinian hostage taking, the Klinghoffer murder, Munich 1972, terrorist acts against the USA or Israel does NOTHING to endear USA or Israel for sympathy, if well deserved to the Palestinian cause for their "homeland"
That's how they saw their resistance as ligitamte. I am not siding them on this one but they modeled after many other guerilla groups. Some of these groups are called freedom fighters when it suits us.


So a few thousand of them lost their homes in 1948 but didn;t give up their deeds? Give me a break. Even I know this very land has been contested for 3000 years, who got there first? The Palestinian Arabs might actually lose that one, too, because the Islamic religion only got started in 622 AD, bnut Judaism existed for a couple of thousand years BC., so maybe they had the land first, the Islamics took it from them and built the Dome of the Rock over their Temple, and now the Jews got the land back again.
Hell we took this land from the Indians just a few hundred years ago, what's your point? The Palestinians are native to that region before the Phoenicians if you want to go that far. Some Palestinians have Jewish roots too. By the way, about 40% of the Palestinians are Christians, did you know that? Maybe not since you already have an imprinted image of rampanging ugly Arabns after Israeli blood. Sorry but that's the way they are portrayed by the media and others.



There is nothing about the Palestinians that prevents them fronm getting an education, emigrating to the USA like the jews did, we welcome all foreigners, in theory anyhow. Sorry to profile them but instead just toomany commited acts of terror, so they will be scrutinised now, harder. That's just bad luck for them. But we have plenty of Jordanians here in Calif, Lebanese too, and look at all those good Syrians and Iraqis living in Detroit, Afghanis in Fremont. Calif.
It's not easy to immigrate to the US but why run? why do we have to accpet that a group of people should or must disperse for the good of another that just happened to claim their land? Where is the logic? What are the drivers?




And from my Jewish friends and college I do know one thing about Judaism, it embraces a reverence for knowledge like few other faiths do, and hence, an abnormal success rate for Jewish professionals. in the arts, journalism, politics, law, finance and business.

Youve got to admit the result of that success is in many ways antisemitism!
Everybody has equal rights to success. There is nothing wrong with that.




In the same way the teeming Palestinian people in the camps are seen by many whose only skills are limited to milking a goat and stripping down an AK 47, neither of which makes them prime candidates for an H 1 Visa to the USA, right?
I think you are losing me here. But when opportuty is not given in an equal manner you end up with a uber class that controls the under class. This is true anywhere and anytime in history




I'll post this now and them go back and look again at what you wrote in red, maybe I can add more.

I think you have an interesting POV but unlike mr BTNST I don't dismiss it out of hand, we agree on some things I think, but to be honest with you I think you lean WAAAY to far in the Arab or anti jewish point of view towards Israel.
Again, read my statement at the begining. Anyone will be labeled as such whenever they side for a split second the Palestinaians on real issues not terrorism. We are Americans and we usually like the underdog but not when it comes to Palestinians, I wonder why? Am I being "anti Jewish" for saying so?


Understand I do NOT tghink you are unpatriotic. Cut a wide swath arounhjd Kamil, he's just another self absorbed kid, mere dust in the wind

Leave my cousin Kamil out off this, he is a good kid!
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post #48 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=cascade]Hi Professor, a couple of more things I noticed, in what you said, first, if it's true that the IPAC lobby is the only one of it's kind, it's up to the Palestineans to either try to get the USA public to outlaw it if it is against the law as you say, OR to mount an equally vigorous effort to launch their own lobby.
You are jocking right? Outlaw AIPAC? The mention of that and your political career is down the drain quicker than you can your momy.
Just look at this forum, by just bringing it up you yourself concluded that I am probably "anti Jew". You see AIPAC succeded at mixing what is Jewish with what is Israeli or Zionism. No am I am not "anti Jew" like you put it, so let's make that clear. I do have a problem with ANY foreign lobby in our country, I will be totally against a Palestinian or any Arab lobby in my country. It's that simple. I would never encourage it nor support it. This is my country not Israel and not United Arabia of Aladin.


It's true they are a tiny minority in the USA today compared to the Jewish minority here, but it's a free country for Islamic people too, they can take advantage of our freedoms too. But usually, all we hear from them is a silence from them. For that matter, all we hear from most Islamic lands is a silence about ISLAMIC acts of terror.
I was watching HNN last night and that's not the impression I got. There was this Muslim scholar blasting all those terrorist acts. It's easy to write what you said when we selectively choose what we want to hear.


Oh but, they ARE capable of protest and rage. Just publish some Danish cartoons, or have a pope suggeswt theheirs might be a religion of violence, and watch the howls and chorus of rage, screaming, and protest. Little selective rage to me "Behead all those who say Islam is violent"
That's their fkin problem, I could care less what Muslims do to defend their religion as long as they do it in a peaceful way. Let's face it I am not proud of our religion's handling of the Jews or others throughout history, let's not kid ourselves here.

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post #49 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss
Israel:
- only democratic country in middle east when rest are led by oil garch dictators
- it gives almost full rights to its citizens regardless of their origin.i bet a few sucide bombers have got releatives in tel aviv living in peace with israeli citizenship
- It does not threaten its neighbours with open aggression and verbal attacks like Iram
- it does not arms the rivals groups of its oppoents to push them into civil war..some things arabs keeps doing with PLO and Hammas
- it does not award 25K USD reward to sucide terrorist families
- it has hard working creative citizens
- it does beg and drag on oil money like arabs..and knows when to cut off and stand up for itself

Iraq war:
A message from USA to Gulf Oil garch.. take lesson and step down.. since war of Iraq, a lot of political and economical improvements have been suddenly made.. They are all talking about bring government closer to public, human right and women rights blah blah blah...America may fail at iraq war but it definately has long lasting effects on neighbours. Almost everyone understands why these oi garch dictators are suddenly scared and for the first time talking about acceding their throne into more public control rather than their brother and inlaws rivalry..

America is clearing winning the hearts of the oil rich gulf here..iraq is a small price to pay..after all..they will nod with the americans once the oil money flows into the pockets of "democratic parliment of Iraq"
Then why resist us? Surrender to our will and give us our oil ayrab boy
I don't want to pay the price with more of our troops and at the expenses of our future generations that we have mortgaged their government with billions to foreign countries so we can finance this war. Why don't you Arabs just give up, huh theboss? If you know that we are doing this for your own good why resist?
Cascade brought up a good point earlier the boss about your brothers in Saudi Arabi not treating Palestinians as equal, why not? Why create more pressure to have more terrorists with your denial of service (DoS)?
Hey what happend to your ambassador here in the US theBoss?
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post #50 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-22-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss
Israel:
- only democratic country in middle east when rest are led by oil garch dictators
- it gives almost full rights to its citizens regardless of their origin.i bet a few sucide bombers have got releatives in tel aviv living in peace with israeli citizenship
- It does not threaten its neighbours with open aggression and verbal attacks like Iram
- it does not arms the rivals groups of its oppoents to push them into civil war..some things arabs keeps doing with PLO and Hammas
- it does not award 25K USD reward to sucide terrorist families
- it has hard working creative citizens
- it does beg and drag on oil money like arabs..and knows when to cut off and stand up for itself

Iraq war:
A message from USA to Gulf Oil garch.. take lesson and step down.. since war of Iraq, a lot of political and economical improvements have been suddenly made.. They are all talking about bring government closer to public, human right and women rights blah blah blah...America may fail at iraq war but it definately has long lasting effects on neighbours. Almost everyone understands why these oi garch dictators are suddenly scared and for the first time talking about acceding their throne into more public control rather than their brother and inlaws rivalry..

America is clearing winning the hearts of the oil rich gulf here..iraq is a small price to pay..after all..they will nod with the americans once the oil money flows into the pockets of "democratic parliment of Iraq"

Gee professor.....looks like YOU may be a bit selective, you may need to read the post above ^^ and get a free edjewcation! Israel made a BIG mistake giving Golan and Gaza back...why did they do it? Ya think it could be world pressure?

On the Jewish promotion of education and success....your reply was "everyone has equal rights to success"....ya missed the point on that one! Check your hair, as something zoomed over your head.

I would venture to guess you are nothing short of a SLIGHTLY mature "kamil". Or maybe you are kamil.

While a fertile vocabulary is nice, the thinking behind it is what counts.

your serve

Last edited by my90300E; 12-22-2006 at 11:51 AM.
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