Do you have the balls to discuss this article? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:31 PM
Always Remembered RIP
 
cascade's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Vehicle: 1991 560SEC AMG
Location: Grass Valley, N. Calif. / Gardnerville, Nevada
Posts: 10,146
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to cascade
I'm not a Doctor, but OK I'll take a look...

OK, I'll take a hack at it. I didn't know Israel "expelled" thousands of Palestinians from their homes in 1947, if it's so there is I guess a greivance there.

BUT- it's been almost 60 years ago!!! You'd think they would've emigrated somewhere - like Jordan - which is mostly Palestinian anyway; and the obscenely Oil rich Arab countries like Saudi Arabia certainly could have EASILY absorbed them, but noooo. Instead of helping them, they kept them locked up inthose squalid oppresive refugee camps which of course became breeding grounds for bitterness and discontent, then blamed it all on Israel, and encouraged an unremitting bitter hate of Israel in the children who passed it on to their children for generations.

By the NEXT year, 1948, when the state of Israel was declared, ALL of Israel's neighbors invaded Israel with the declared and express intention of PUSHING ISRAEL INTO THE OCEAN<, destroying it. I can't blame the Jews for trying to save their infant state, can you?

With their kibuttzes,and hard work, the state of Israel bloomed, and let's not forget, it gave MANY Palestinians a standard of living with jobs and more they otherwise would not have had. that continues to this day, does it not? There are many Jews and Palestinians who work together and get along, (that's not newsworthy though). The suicide bombers and terrorists are, though...

The Palestinian line has pretty much hardlinegive us all the land, Israel into the sea, we refuse to acknowledge Israel exists.

I'll be the first one to admit there is a ENORMOUS and influential Jewish lobby in the USA, they lobby effectively for support and aid to Israel, far beyond what sometimes appears proper, and there is no real Palestinian lobby of any note lobbying similarly in the USA, so as a result the US govt. "tilts" too much Israel, but, then too, the militants and fanatics have sometimes held sway in Palestine so we couldn't really support them that wholeheartedly without being Antisemetic

I never believed that the USA and Israel's destinies are linked. Our foreign policies merely make it seem so sometimes. And they are more Jewish people in New York than in Israel, I read- if that's true, you'd have to expect a lot of pull towards Israel.

The bombs and rockets still hit Israel even today fromn time to time. Israel cedes part of the Gaza strip to Palestine, and what thanks do they get, just more bombs and rockets lobbed at them,PLUS the ceded area is looted and descends into anarchy. No good shall go unpunishesd. Wonderful.

And now the Palestinian government has factions shooting at each other in the streets, too bad Israel may have shut off a few people from their jobs and hurt their economy, but how can Israel be blamed, I wonder if different factions of Palestinians are shooting each other - like, how can the USA be blamed for the Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis killing each other. it's their own beef.

I don't think the jews are to blame, it seems to me, that you have competing radical Islamic militants, mullahs and terrorists hijacking the religion of Allah, hating Jews, taking hostages and taking advantage of the Western dependence on their oil.

If it wasn't for all that oil over there the big companies have made us dependent on, we'd have no more interest as Americans than we do in, say a Muslim country like Indonesia, or Turkmenistan.

And as I said, there is a large Jewish lobby, media, legislative and political presence because of the large and influencial number of concerned, educated and professional Jewish people in the USA, that counts for something that can't be ignored, and the state of Israel has proved friendly to the USA over time

Those are my initial thoughts, which should give you an idea of what I am thinking.

Since you asked. What do you think?
cascade is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
I am now clear on how much you know about Zimbabwe. And Israel.

Bot
Sure, why reply then? don't waste your time replying to the pervfessor
DP is offline  
post #13 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:34 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
Sure, why reply then? don't waste your time replying to the pervfessor
When the Perverser knows not enough of Israel and Zimbabwe to understand the utter vacuity of his argument, then it is not especially interesting to engage in thought any deeper than that displayed by the Perverser.

B
Botnst is offline  
post #14 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
Part1

[quote=cascade]OK, I'll take a hack at it. I didn't know Israel "expelled" thousands of Palestinians from their homes in 1947, if it's so there is I guess a greivance there.
Yes that's a fact and many ended up in camps within Israel. in Jordan and some spread around other Arab countries and even the USA.


BUT- it's been almost 60 years ago!!!
It's still their land they never signed off on their deeds did they?

You'd think they would've emigrated somewhere - like Jordan - which is mostly Palestinian anyway; and the obscenely Oil rich Arab countries like Saudi Arabia
I have seen how Palestianinas live in Jordan and in Saudi, they are poor and in Saudi they don't even have a citizenship, hence no rights.

certainly could have EASILY absorbed them, but noooo. Instead of helping them, they kept them locked up inthose squalid oppresive refugee camps which of course became breeding grounds for bitterness and discontent, then blamed it all on Israel, and encouraged an unremitting bitter hate of Israel in the children who passed it on to their children for generations.

I agree with you, The Arabs did not do their part in helping the Palestinains. As matter of fact they used the Palestinians to further their own opressive causes.

By the NEXT year, 1948, when the state of Israel was declared, ALL of Israel's neighbors invaded Israel with the declared and express intention of PUSHING ISRAEL INTO THE OCEAN<, destroying it. I can't blame the Jews for trying to save their infant state, can you?
Neither can I and Israel is here to stay. The question is how can Israel live with its neighbors in peace? It is not going to be through ,amipulating the USA to invade them we can see right now what that means for us and Israel.

With their kibuttzes,and hard work, the state of Israel bloomed, and let's not forget, it gave MANY Palestinians a standard of living with jobs and more they otherwise would not have had. that continues to this day, does it not?
Notreally true, look at the walled cities and camps and road blocks these people have to live through. Yeah, we can bring up the "terrorism" prevention bit, but you know why they are walled in. They simply want them to give up. I mean how do you expect a people to have hope when you don't even respect their elections which Israel and the US pushed for because they did not want to deal with Arafat? This is bullshit, we don't want to talk to anyone. What we want is to tell them what to do.

There are many Jews and Palestinians who work together and get along, (that's not newsworthy though). The suicide bombers and terrorists are, though...
But not with real equality, let's not kid ourselves.


The Palestinian line has pretty much hardlinegive us all the land, Israel into the sea, we refuse to acknowledge Israel exists.

I'll be the first one to admit there is a ENORMOUS and influential Jewish lobby in the USA, they lobby effectively for support and aid to Israel, far beyond what sometimes appears proper, and there is no real Palestinian lobby of any note lobbying similarly in the USA, so as a result the US govt. "tilts" too much Israel, but, then too, the militants and fanatics have sometimes held sway in Palestine so we couldn't really support them that wholeheartedly without being Antisemetic

I never believed that the USA and Israel's destinies are linked. Our foreign policies merely make it seem so sometimes. And they are more Jewish people in New York than in Israel, I read- if that's true, you'd have to expect a lot of pull towards Israel.

The bombs and rockets still hit Israel even today fromn time to time. Israel cedes part of the Gaza strip to Palestine, and what thanks do they get, just more bombs and rockets lobbed at them,PLUS the ceded area is looted and descends into anarchy. No good shall go unpunishesd. Wonderful.

And now the Palestinian government has factions shooting at each other in the streets, too bad Israel may have shut off a few people from their jobs and hurt their economy, but how can Israel be blamed, I wonder if different factions of Palestinians are shooting each other - like, how can the USA be blamed for the Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis killing each other. it's their own beef.

I don't think the jews are to blame, it seems to me, that you have competing radical Islamic militants, mullahs and terrorists hijacking the religion of Allah, hating Jews, taking hostages and taking advantage of the Western dependence on their oil.

If it wasn't for all that oil over there the big companies have made us dependent on, we'd have no more interest as Americans than we do in, say a Muslim country like Indonesia, or Turkmenistan.

And as I said, there is a large Jewish lobby, media, legislative and political presence because of the large and influencial number of concerned, educated and professional Jewish people in the USA, that counts for something that can't be ignored, and the state of Israel has proved friendly to the USA over time

Those are my initial thoughts, which should give you an idea of what I am thinking.

Since you asked. What do you think?
DP is offline  
post #15 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:50 PM
Cruise Control
 
Zeitgeist's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: '87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon TDI/'01 EV Weekender VR6
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 51,730
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
You reach for a glorious contrarian position that is non-existent. If you take the time to read, lots of folks in the USA have lots of different opinions about the USA and about our relationship with Israel. There is a strong consensus of support for Israel, but it is a pluralistic support, not a monolithic support. Some few supporters of Israel are bigoted anti-Arab wackoes. And you can probably list 3-4 reasons other than bigotry why various Americans may support Israel.

The same basic properties concern people who are not supporters of Israel. Some of them are completely freaked-out nazi oven-stocking bigots. But we can probably construct a list of 3-4 or more reasons why folks don't support Israel. Again, pluralistic, not monolithic.

It is an artificial constraint on reason to assume that all (supporters/non-supporters) think a certain way. In it's own way, that too is a form of prejudice, when one thinks that all people are driven by some sort of binary choice mechanism. Instead, most people have a variety of motivations that result in a generalized choice.

I am generally a supporter of Israel. I'll bet you cannot accurately describe why I choose to support Israel, but I'll bet you believe you know.

Bot

Yes, we Merkins are a strange and diverse lot, ain't we. But, we don't really count, when it comes to the Merkin stalwart support for ongoing Israeli aggression. The only Merkins that count, are those who entertain K-Street lizards in their Congressional offices and Lincoln bedrooms. Most Merkins want to raise the minimum wage, downsize government, pull out of Iraq, create a universal healthcare system, or simplify the tax code, but when did those initiatives last gain any political traction?

Merka's immoral support for Israel is bound up in the political/lobby process, not the popular will.

I suspect your support for Israel can be boiled down to a three letter word, which seems to undergird the rest of your foreign policy agenda.
Zeitgeist is offline  
post #16 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:52 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
Yes, we Merkins are a strange and diverse lot, ain't we. But, we don't really count, when it comes to the Merkin stalwart support for ongoing Israeli aggression. The only Merkins that count, are those who entertain K-Street lizards in their Congressional offices and Lincoln bedrooms. Most Merkins want to raise the minimum wage, downsize government, pull out of Iraq, create a universal healthcare system, or simplify the tax code, but when did those initiatives last gain any political traction?

Merka's immoral support for Israel is bound up in the political/lobby process, not the popular will.

I suspect your support for Israel can be boiled down to a three letter word, which seems to undergird the rest of your foreign policy agenda.
Thank you for providing a living example of the point I was struggling to make.

Bot
Botnst is offline  
post #17 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:58 PM
Cruise Control
 
Zeitgeist's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: '87 300TD/'90 300D/'94 Quattro/'89 Vanagon TDI/'01 EV Weekender VR6
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 51,730
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Glad I could help...I guess(?)
Zeitgeist is offline  
post #18 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
(Thread Starter)
[quote=cascade]The Palestinian line has pretty much hardlinegive us all the land, Israel into the sea, we refuse to acknowledge Israel exists.
I am certain that there will be a resolution if Israel played fair. But that's not going to happen because the US will make sure of that. How? read your next paragraph


I'll be the first one to admit there is a ENORMOUS and influential Jewish lobby in the USA, they lobby effectively for support and aid to Israel, far beyond what sometimes appears proper, and there is no real Palestinian lobby of any note lobbying similarly in the USA, so as a result the US govt. "tilts" too much Israel, but, then too, the militants and fanatics have sometimes held sway in Palestine so we couldn't really support them that wholeheartedly without being Antisemetic

There is no other FOREIGN lobby in the US. Israel is the only one that's got one.
It's the LAW that here shall be no foreign lobbies in our land so don't count on an Arab lobby but Israel can get away with it becuase AIPAC is registered as an American entity but it's agenda is far from being American because its sole existance to "coach" our legistlator on how to handle Middle East foreign affairs.



I never believed that the USA and Israel's destinies are linked.
That's not AIPAC's mission statement, on the contrary we are linked.

Our foreign policies merely make it seem so
Bullshit, we are told what to do. A few weeks ago I linked right out of AIPAC's website that they have given "exams" to our newly elected representatives in congress to test their alligance to Israel


sometimes. And they are more Jewish people in New York than in Israel, I read- if that's true, you'd have to expect a lot of pull towards Israel.

That's fine, but where is the rest of the country? not educated enough to know about the displaced that you just found out about?


The bombs and rockets still hit Israel even today fromn time to time. Israel cedes part of the Gaza strip to Palestine, and what thanks do they get, just more bombs and rockets lobbed at them,PLUS the ceded area is looted and descends into anarchy. No good shall go unpunishesd. Wonderful.

Gaza was set up to be a large concentration camp. Why do you think Israel pulled the settlers out of there?
It's meant to be used for collective punishment

And now the Palestinian government has factions shooting at each other in the streets, too bad Israel may have shut off a few people from their jobs and hurt their economy, but how can Israel be blamed, I wonder if different factions of Palestinians are shooting each other - like, how can the USA be blamed for the Iraqi Shiites and Sunnis killing each other. it's their own beef.
What do you expect them to do when there is no real power?


I don't think the jews are to blame, it seems to me, that you have competing radical Islamic militants, mullahs and terrorists hijacking the religion of Allah, hating Jews, taking hostages and taking advantage of the Western dependence on their oil.
It's not the Jews that need to be blamed, it's humanity.



If it wasn't for all that oil over there the big companies have made us dependent on, we'd have no more interest as Americans than we do in, say a Muslim country like Indonesia, or Turkmenistan.
Again, let's stop the hypocrisy an call it for what it is. We can care less about those people so why do we bring up topics like democracy and other smoke screens?


And as I said, there is a large Jewish lobby, media, legislative and political presence because of the large and influencial number of concerned, educated and professional Jewish people in the USA, that counts for something that can't be ignored, and the state of Israel has proved friendly to the USA over time
That says a lot about our educational system


Those are my initial thoughts, which should give you an idea of what I am thinking.

Since you asked. What do you think?
I will tell you what I think if this thread stays alive

Last edited by DP; 12-21-2006 at 09:04 PM.
DP is offline  
post #19 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 10:18 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mzsmbs's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 1972 Mercedes 250 (/8) W114/M130
Location: on a high bank of a creek
Posts: 7,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
Do you have the balls ..............?
please ask camille. he is the closest to you and loves his tickled or something..




in political asylum
mzsmbs is offline  
post #20 of 102 (permalink) Old 12-21-2006, 10:38 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
MBLR's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2006
Vehicle: 2k SlK230 / 2KSlk320 / 2000 Toyota Tacoma, 95 Land Rover D90 (done) Now looking for a series IIA
Location: Utah-ha hah!
Posts: 2,192
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now really this again brings a post to mind that I did some time ago somewhere here..... this is just another reason why USA should stop trying to be the world policeman simply because of the influence of the mega buck lobbyers and the weakness of many of the jerks in the goverment who pretend to serve in our best interest.
Israel's folks are by no means dumb they know very well who to buy out to get what they want and I would not be surprised if they even have a special class just to train them in the art of doing just that.
Now don't label me anti semitic because that would just simply be a hogwash way to avoid the truth of the matter and that is Everyone has the right for a place to live in peace and not have the home bulldozed down because someone else does not want you there.
Also folks have the right to not live in fear of the next place some missguided person going to blow em self up!
But what brings people to such measures? the desire for freedom from being put down and pushed around becomes so strong that they fail to realize that there are others who are willing to manipulate them and use them for goals that are far darker than many realize.
Israel's way of handling people that are not Jewish is a strong factor in the way things are going and will continue to evolve you simply can not treat people like shit and expect them to not shit on you first chance they get.
MBLR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Opinions on Best Suspension Options Lets Discuss mcbear W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 28 06-03-2008 08:36 AM
    560 Diff in 300 -- Discuss mcbear W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 9 12-11-2005 08:20 PM
    Discuss this topic! Bora20 Benzworld Site issues forum 0 07-10-2005 01:41 PM
    Discuss: Under pressure from environmentalists, politicians, some auto makers could it really mean S4toML W163 M-Class 3 01-28-2003 02:28 PM
    Front page updated...Pre-SAFE article & new Classic article... Drew W163 M-Class 2 08-22-2002 01:58 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome