The Professor’s Iraq Re-Deployment Plan - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
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Let's compromise. Let's surround Iraq with Mexicans.
We already have, we are recruiting a lot of them for a fast track to a green card
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post #62 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:48 PM
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Let's compromise. Let's surround Iraq with Mexicans.
Then who the hell is going to do all the work in the USA?
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post #63 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:49 PM
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Yeah, but well founded. (but not enough to take away ALL your civil liberties,tap your phone, and to strip search 80 year old Swedish grannies at the airport, and create a homeland security bureaucracy, the very word HOMELAND sounds way too close to "DER VATERLAND" )

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #64 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Who's big brother Goldstein?
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post #65 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:02 PM
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Goldstein was the all-purpose villian invented by the country of Oceania in the novel "1984". The government showed films of Goldstein's nefarious deeds during Hate Week. A good time was had by all.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #66 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 12:13 AM
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Unfortunately, moving out of Northern Iraq will give Turkey the excuse to stike at the Kurds.
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post #67 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 12:41 AM
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who said anything about US leaving kurdistan?



in political asylum
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post #68 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 01:06 AM
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I tell you what cascade; I have been telling everyone that we should let Israel take over Iraq in many posts. Basically Israel claims to be our best and most loyal ally in that region so why not put it to work. They can deploy their own troops in Iraq to secure that region while we scale back in the surrounding region just in case we need to pounce back if Iran flinches for one split second. Not a single member of this board approached this theory by either critiquing it in a serious manner or simply see merits in it. Now that I see that you are so steamed up about the situation in Iraq and that a controlled scaling back does not meet your acceptance what do you think of what I just told you? Let's see if you will approach this topic without political correctness bullshit. Your moment to shine cascade!
Look, I get interested in the ideas about Iraq, and believe me, yours are intriugiguing, and it mimight seem to you that your ideas about engauging the Israelis in Iraq, would seem fair because they are our best allies over there, the fact is, and it's HARDLY PC to bring this up, they have an active and lively lobby in DC, like the oil companies, and there are I think more Jewish people in the USA than in Israel!, they won't go for an idea of deploying their paltry but well trained army into Iraq because they "owe" us something. Suure if you think they'll accept it, by all means invite them into Iraq, but I hope they have a counjterinsurgency strategy that WORKS, unlike that of the US army, which doesn't, Just a guess, but a Jewish army in Iraq would probably INSTANTLY make the Sunnis and Shiites forget all their animosities, and start killing Jews together hand in hand, with glee. THOSE people won't even admit Israel's existence, and some of them are calling for the extinction of Israel. They'd like nothing better than a chance to personally kill them some Jewish soldiers. Sure, we could try your plan- nothing else works. I just don't think yours doesn't, and I'm just wondering if the argument that what's left of Iraq might be better left off for ALL the surrounding parties to divide it up, as was suggested here.

I think the opportunity the US army and the "coalition provisional authority"
(derided by some over there as (can't produce anything) has passed, that events are now beyond the control of the US forces to effect change there, unless you are willing to have 3,000,000 or so US troops there, ready to "stay the course" for 100, or more years. Instituting complete gun control in Iraq, and enforcing it harshly. I don't think it could work, and I don't think I am alone in
believing this.

I don't think we can accomplish a meaningful solution anymore by repositioning the troops around, by bringing in more, or withdrawing a few of them, I think the idea that the countries surrounding Iraq need to be brought in, and all of them engaged in a solution to the problem which MIGHT end up with what we knew as Iraq broken into 3 pieces, and the country we knew as Iraq split into spheres of influence, or annexed to Iran, Kurdistan, Jordan and Syria....it's personally distasteful, and it might not work, turn into a govt. less Somalia, but the idea is to try and stop the carnage, even if it means a result like what happened after the UN got into Yugoslavia in the 1990s

Don't get me wrong, the troops we have there are heroic, and there have been lots of schools, roads, hospitals and such reconstructed, but too many are being destroyed by car bombers in their Taliban Toyotas.

The militant Islamists have cowed the moderates, and there is a horrible mutation of that religion afoot, like some kind of horrible 8th century religion that should be extinct but isn't.
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post #69 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Teutone
Unfortunately, moving out of Northern Iraq will give Turkey the excuse to stike at the Kurds.
Well, I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but they are in pretty good shape, and I doubt Turkey would attack Iraqi Kurdistan. In the end, they would have to go in on the ground, it's a LONG and tough journey through Turkish Kurdistan to get there, and those Kurds are FIERCE and ungovernable, and I don't think Turkey would use Poison Gas on their cities, it would doom their chances of ever getting into the EU, and they want to so bad they can taste it.

The PKK is still alive within Turkey (in Turkish Kurdistan) and Turkey has its hands full already in that areas keeping them under control and suppressing their language and culture.

What do you think about the idea of Kurdistan controlling, for now at least, the territory in Northern Iraq, including Erbil and oil rich Mosul, into an Independent nation of Kurdistan, and for the moment, foregoing the idea to forcibly annex the Western Part of Kurdistan in Turkey, and the East part, in Iran, to avoid war with them?

The Iranians and Turks and Iraqi sunnis sure wouldn't like it, but that's the defacto situation now, and maybe the could be forced to accept it as part of an overall peace plan for the ME in general.

Wonder if it could work, do you think any chance?
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post #70 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cascade
Well, I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time, but they are in pretty good shape, and I doubt Turkey would attack Iraqi Kurdistan. In the end, they would have to go in on the ground, it's a LONG and tough journey through Turkish Kurdistan to get there, and those Kurds are FIERCE and ungovernable, and I don't think Turkey would use Poison Gas on their cities, it would doom their chances of ever getting into the EU, and they want to so bad they can taste it.

The PKK is still alive within Turkey (in Turkish Kurdistan) and Turkey has its hands full already in that areas keeping them under control and suppressing their language and culture.

What do you think about the idea of Kurdistan controlling, for now at least, the territory in Northern Iraq, including Erbil and oil rich Mosul, into an Independent nation of Kurdistan, and for the moment, foregoing the idea to forcibly annex the Western Part of Kurdistan in Turkey, and the East part, in Iran, to avoid war with them?

The Iranians and Turks and Iraqi sunnis sure wouldn't like it, but that's the defacto situation now, and maybe the could be forced to accept it as part of an overall peace plan for the ME in general.

Wonder if it could work, do you think any chance?
Your description of the kurdish people agrees with what I know of them. Interesting that we come to opposite conclusions concerning Turkish response to a declaration of Kurdish independence.

The Turks have been actively trying various methods of suppressing the Kurds since Suleiman the Magnificent, a Kurd, kicked Turkoman butt and united the anatolean region 800 years ago. Also, Turkey has been fighting a passive-aggressive war with Iraq since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The latest manifestation is the damming of the rivers that flow into Iraq from Turkey, essentially giving Turkey a carotid clamp on the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers.

Finally, Turkey has for decades lusted after the oilfields of northern Iraq which coincidentally, are found where the Turkomanis are most abundant. During the major operations to topple the Baathist regime the Turkish Army sent clandestine forces into that area where they were surprised to engage elements of the 82 Airborne at night.

I'll bet that the USA promised Turkey that Iraq would remain whole to assure Turkey's compliance with a Kurdish-dominated regional government in Northern Iraq. If that agreement fails then Turkey would no longer be restrained from its ambition to suppress the Kurds and take the oilfields which they will argue, should be part of Turkey due to the large presence of Turkomans. They can make it stick by shutting-down the water to Iraq. Forcing them to open the flow of water would require military incursion into Turkey -- not a winning strategy for either the USA nor the fledgling and ineffective government of Iraq.

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