The Professor’s Iraq Re-Deployment Plan - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:13 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade
With all due respect to you, and at the risk of sounding arch, your suggestions, while sounding well intentioned, is only re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Or, to put a finer point on it, rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg.

The situation at this point is so far out of control that in Baghdad, the children on the playgrounds are identifying one another as Sunni or Shiite, and fighting each other. Each side has devolved into ethnic cleansing units, trying to rid their own neighborhoods, of the other side, and playing real dirty, Salvadorean type death squads, using women and children as human shields, kidnapping hostages and drilling electric drills into their heads before murdering them. uniting ONLY insofar as they both want to kill our troops, the so called Iraqi "Police" and security forces many of whose personal religious agenda trumps all else, and they can't be trusted to carry out the will of the Iraqi "nation" if there still is one.

Meanwhile the remaining Iraqis are in fear of their very lives and more and more every day are fleeing to Jordan and Syria, thousands daily, they just want out of there no matter what the cost.

I'm wondering if the best we can hope is that this won't become like like the Hamas and Hezbollah forever fighting one another in Palestine. But I think it's even worse than that.

It's like Yugoslavia was at its worst. Maybe a UN brokered peace treaty needs to be considered. I really don't know.
There is only one logical outcome: the partition of Iraq, with the partitions then parcelled out to the Syrians,Jordanians and Iranians. This is the real reason Baker wants Syria and Iran in talks: he is planning on surrendering to them. It is the ONLY WAY we can guarantee the rump portions of Iraq do not become terrorist states.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:16 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007
Have you seen how big a Turkey dropping can be?

FTL is right.

Let's have a victory celebration that FTL can mock mercilessly and get out of there. Bush can declare "Mission Recomplished" (FTL can mock yet more) and thank the wonderful democratically (FTL smirks) elected iraqi government for their friendship.

Thanks for coming, buh-bye.

The war was won by the New York Times, FTL, the IED, and Iran. America lost.

We don't have the will to win. Bush sold out our military. Viet-fucking-nam style.

Next...
We gave you guys six years of guns, money and the blood of our children. No one lost it but Bush. One fucking mistake after another. Bush just never fought a war. 140,000 troops to control Iraq was a military blunder on the order of Stalingrad, the greatest military blunder in US history, and all because to garrison Iraq with the 500,000 troops it would require, would mean the end of Bush's precious tax cuts. You fuckers kill people for money.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #13 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:21 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,495
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I absolutely, 100% AGREE. Professor, why is this all up to us? Isn't that how we got into this shit in the first place?

We need to get out. We then need to see if we can get back into the community of nations, which may require impeaching Bush. Then we need to work with NATO and the UN to stablize the Middle East.
Community of Nations?

FTL, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like when the world loved us when? Woodstock? Back when the Earth's climate was stable and the oceans were so clean you could drink out of them?
DaveN007 is offline  
post #14 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:23 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,495
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
You fuckers kill people for money.
To protect people like you. It is funny, isn't it?

Like the ACLU fighting to protect the rights of Nazi's to burn down ACLU headquarters.

Please move to SF, LA, or NY and join the party.

ALLAH O AHKBAR!
DaveN007 is offline  
post #15 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:31 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007
Community of Nations?

FTL, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like when the world loved us when? Woodstock? Back when the Earth's climate was stable and the oceans were so clean you could drink out of them?
No, like in "Gulf War I". Remember that one? The one we DIDN'T lose?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #16 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:32 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007
To protect people like you. It is funny, isn't it?

Like the ACLU fighting to protect the rights of Nazi's to burn down ACLU headquarters.

Please move to SF, LA, or NY and join the party.

ALLAH O AHKBAR!
Nothing has ever been done in Iraq that protected me from anything, instead it has taken our focus off the real terrorists and done the opposite.

Stop foaming at the mouth, it is embarassing to look at you.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #17 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:41 PM
Always Remembered RIP
 
cascade's Avatar
 
Date registered: Nov 2006
Vehicle: 1991 560SEC AMG
Location: Grass Valley, N. Calif. / Gardnerville, Nevada
Posts: 10,146
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to cascade
Slicing up the pie

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
There is only one logical outcome: the partition of Iraq, with the partitions then parcelled out to the Syrians,Jordanians and Iranians. This is the real reason Baker wants Syria and Iran in talks: he is planning on surrendering to them. It is the ONLY WAY we can guarantee the rump portions of Iraq do not become terrorist states.
What you propose means the liquidation of Iraq as a nation. Oh wait, it's only been a "nation" since Britain drew the borders, in what, 1921. Sounds like Yugoslavia being broken down into Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina (BiH). Macedonia, Serbia and Kosovo, and the notion of "Iraq" dies, while the memory of the much prettier name of Mesopotamia lives on only in our memories.

Basrah and the South becomes part of Iran, and get the Southern oil fields, and the Western part becomes part of Sunni, and Kurdistan - you forgot the Kurds, oh well, everyone always does, right? - Kurdistan gets its own nation at last, and the oil fields at Mosul.

Of course the Sunnis will look at the partition, and scream, where's OUR share of Iraq's oil, there is not so much in the West, the Shiites and Kurds got the best parts.

But wait: Look at the map, what will be the western and east borders of Kurdistan? It should include Iranian Kurdistan, and Iran probably won't want to cede any land to that end. And Turkey, well, their record in the east of that country is less than stellar...anyone remember the Armenian genocide of 1915 Turkey to this day refuses to admit even happened? And over there they have FIERCELY kept the ungovernable Turkish Kurds under their heel since time immemorial, and THEY won't tolerate the loss of Eastern Turkey and the Kurdish capital there of Diyarbakir for one second.

The American troops are being decimated "death by a thousand cuts" every day.
I'd venture that the American public is exhausted with "staying the course".

Maybe it's really time to use some massive force to broker a geopolical reality, and see Iraq get carved up along religious linjes, with new borders drawn, with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Iran FULLY involved in the process.

So much for Operation Iraqi Oil

Reign in Israel once and for all, no more death from above into suffering Lebanon, and the US, Iran and Syria support Siniora in Lebanon by giving Hizbollah no further military aid from Syria and Iran, which those countries would hopefully do, in return for expanding their influence into what was Iraq.
cascade is offline  
post #18 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:48 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN007
Community of Nations?

FTL, what the fuck are you talking about?

Like when the world loved us when? Woodstock? Back when the Earth's climate was stable and the oceans were so clean you could drink out of them?
Dave, it wasn't that long ago when most of Europe was still quite enamoured with America. I lived in Germany in the 1960's, and that was such a time. Yes the French have always been a bit contrary, even then, but no one really believed any of them could have recovered after WWII without the US aid, and a strong American military presence to offset the Russians.

In those days America was viewed as being less of a bully, and not really much of an antagonist of international confrontations. Our role to counter the Russians was clearly one we assumed not because we started some shit with the Russians, but because the Russians were the instigators and to oppose them in Europe was in both the Western Europeans' and America's best interests.

That is not the case anymore. We spent the goodwill America earned in its previous 200 year history in the lead up to invading Iraq. We forced our previous allies to learn to rely on their own judgement because we were now capable of lying and fabricating evidence, then trying to bully anyone who questioned our decrees. Very unwise and very costly. To rejoin the international community as a welcome member, it is going to cost us in terms of demonstrating we can listen to others, and time.

But, hey, you guys could give a shit about being a respected member of the international community. You believe being feared is sufficient. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #19 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 03:56 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Unless you folks are in direct communication with god, like our beloved president, you should probably just stay out of it.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #20 of 85 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 04:00 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade
What you propose means the liquidation of Iraq as a nation. Oh wait, it's only been a "nation" since Britain drew the borders, in what, 1921. Sounds like Yugoslavia being broken down into Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina (BiH). Macedonia, Serbia and Kosovo, and the notion of "Iraq" dies, while the memory of the much prettier name of Mesopotamia lives on only in our memories.

Basrah and the South becomes part of Iran, and get the Southern oil fields, and the Western part becomes part of Sunni, and Kurdistan - you forgot the Kurds, oh well, everyone always does, right? - Kurdistan gets its own nation at last, and the oil fields at Mosul.

Of course the Sunnis will look at the partition, and scream, where's OUR share of Iraq's oil, there is not so much in the West, the Shiites and Kurds got the best parts.

But wait: Look at the map, what will be the western and east borders of Kurdistan? It should include Iranian Kurdistan, and Iran probably won't want to cede any land to that end. And Turkey, well, their record in the east of that country is less than stellar...anyone remember the Armenian genocide of 1915 Turkey to this day refuses to admit even happened? And over there they have FIERCELY kept the ungovernable Turkish Kurds under their heel since time immemorial, and THEY won't tolerate the loss of Eastern Turkey and the Kurdish capital there of Diyarbakir for one second.

The American troops are being decimated "death by a thousand cuts" every day.
I'd venture that the American public is exhausted with "staying the course".

Maybe it's really time to use some massive force to broker a geopolical reality, and see Iraq get carved up along religious linjes, with new borders drawn, with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Iran FULLY involved in the process.

So much for Operation Iraqi Oil

Reign in Israel once and for all, no more death from above into suffering Lebanon, and the US, Iran and Syria support Siniora in Lebanon by giving Hizbollah no further military aid from Syria and Iran, which those countries would hopefully do, in return for expanding their influence into what was Iraq.
Easy solution to "where's my oil": they will give Kurdistan to the Sunnis. We have played right into their hands so far, why stop now? Sunni Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia are the natural nation of Arabia. Syria and Iran have been working for years for just that.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    inadvertent active headrest deployment katie patil MB Safety & Testimonials 4 06-13-2012 04:05 PM
    Top Marine: No Plan For Post-Saddam Iraq DP Off-Topic 7 11-14-2006 08:25 PM
    America's Plan for Super-Bases in Iraq firstmb Off-Topic 20 06-01-2006 09:33 AM
    Bush's new plan for "Victory in Iraq": Same old BS, more blood, more murder, more dead Americans FeelTheLove Off-Topic 19 11-30-2005 05:14 PM
    Hello Professor, Got an OT question for you NewMBie W126 S,SE,SEC,SEL,SD,SDL Class 3 07-10-2004 11:01 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome