Iraq worse than under Saddam, says UN chief - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Iraq worse than under Saddam, says UN chief

Iraq worse than under Saddam, says UN chief


Kofi Annan today bitterly criticised the Iraq war, saying Iraqis suffered greater fear than under Saddam Hussein.
The United Nations Secretary General said the level of violence was "much worseĂ® than in civil wars that were fought in Lebanon and other places.
Asked in a BBC interview if Iraqis were worse off, he replied: "I think they are ... in the sense of the average Iraqi's life.
"If I were an average Iraqi obviously I would make the same comparison-They had a dictator who was brutal but they had their streets. They could go out, their kids could go to school and come back home without a mother or father worrying, 'Am I going to see my child again?'."
Mr Annan, who is retiring after 10 years in charge of the UN, spoke of his sadness at being unable to prevent George Bush and Tony Blair invading Iraq without UN backing.
His comments came ahead of this week's Baker report which is expected to urge a quicker phased withdrawal by US troops and to engage with "axis of evil" states Iran and Syria.
Mr Blair is planning to use the report to press Mr Bush to launch a fresh bid for peace in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Iraq's president rejected calls for an international conference on how to halt the violence wracking his country. "We are an independent and a sovereign nation and it is we who decide the fate of the nation," said Jalal Talabani.
Seven Americans died in weekend fighting around Baghdad. Meanwhile a US air strike flattened a building, killing two women and a toddler as well as six militants.
President Bush has recently emphasised that he will not withdraw US troops from the battlefield until they have completed their mission. He has also stated that the Baker report is just one of several options that he will consider.
But it emerged over the weekend that even sacked former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld, a leading hawk, had set out withdrawal on a list of options.
The Secretary General gave his hardest-hitting assessment yet of the present situation as he prepared to leave office. The question of whether the sectarian violence in Iraq can be termed a "civil war" has become highly controversial.
Mr Annan indicated that he was in no doubt about its seriousness "given the level of the violence, the level of killing and the way the forces are ranged against each other".
"A few years ago, when we had the strife in Lebanon and other places, we called that a civil war. This is much worse," he said.
Mr Annan said he did "everything I could" to stop the war taking place in the first place and genuinely believed it could have been halted.
He said his biggest regret was that the war had claimed the lives of almost two dozen colleagues in a Baghdad bombing.
"My biggest regret? It is the loss of 23 wonderful colleagues and friends," he said. "They went to Iraq to try and help clean up the aftermath of a war I genuinely did not believe in. "Of course, when that happens you ask questions: would they be here if I had not asked them to go?"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1811&ct=5
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:30 AM
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It's time for us to leave. If this is the best we can do for these people, it is time for us to go.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:41 AM
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Purple fingers anyone?
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:46 AM
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After the results of that election were in, I pointed out continously that the majority of voters had voted for Shiite religous parties. They voted for the people who wanted to take their freedom away and destroy equality. We precipatated this by our misunderstanding of Islamic culture, failing to see that Turkey was the only successful Muslim democracy and it became democratic (as far as it is) by banning religous parties. How in the name of Holy Christ did we think we were going to establish a democracy in a country where the majority of voters had voted for a party called "The Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq", a party with an Iranian-trained armed militia. This has been insanity from day one, and we have been fed bullshit to the eyeballs. The purple finger lady, if she is not dead, is probably cleaning guns for al-Sadr.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 09:56 AM
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Oh let me add to the list:
Do I see a trend?
Chaves elected
The Dems in Congress
Bye bye Sec of Def.
Murtha's plan might be implemented after all, oh he won't get credit for it though
Bolton bolting out
Annan calling Iraq's situation worse than Saddam's era
The Taliban is stronger and gaining momentum
Lebanon on the brinks of instability which could be precipitated if we interfere
Israel did not gain any bonus points from it's latest invasion
Hezbollah is stronger
Iran is playing us for fools
Bush meets Iran representative in Irak, Sheik Hakim, way to go
Walter Reed is full of casualties
We have not won the hearts and minds of anyone of significance
We made Islam the official law in Iraq
Iraq is in a civil war but our president prefers to burry his head in the sand
We fell asleep at the wheel while Lebanon was getting battered because of our loyalty to a fear and political correctness
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:08 AM
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It is becoming apparent more and more everyday what a total debacle and utter clusterfuck Lebanon was. I was reading about cluster bombs on another web site. We sell them to very few countries, and we sell them under treaty - the buyer agrees to get our permission before he can use them in war. We OK'd the Israeli use of this inhuman weapon on Lebanon. The UN says there are one million bomblets covering Southern Lebanon. The people of Lebanon now have a daily reminder of us in the form of kids with their legs blown off. The last survey taken of the people there show that even Christians in Lebanon now support Hezbollah.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:11 AM
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That's because we never thought of Lebanese or Iraqis as human beings.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:12 AM
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And this was the ME country that very recently took a hard lean to the West and sent Syria packing, right? Score another victory for the brilliance of the Bush administration!

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-04-2006, 10:21 AM
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In his book "Fiasco", Tom Riggs says that the proper course in Iraq would have been to recognize that Baathist idealogy is not terrorist by nature, and that there are Baathist parties of one form or another throughout the Middle East. We failed to recognize that one of the reasons that Saddam could maintain peace in Iraq was by doing the same thing the Turks did - outlawing the religious parties. The failing was that only one party was tolerated. Victory could have been achieved by arresting Baathists who were criminals and then allow the ones who were not guilty of crimes to continue to govern under our supervision while more secular parties were formed and elections were organized, and allow them to participate in an election, which they probably would have done very well at. This would have precluded the formation of the Baathist insurgency. Our real enemy there has always been the Islamists - we should have arrested them or deported them to Iran, but instead we allow them to form political organizations and militias. According to Riggs, we essentially surrendered the country to our enemies and called it victory by waving a fucking purple finger. The real job that needed to be done was to reform, not destroy, the Baath Party and allow the formation of secular parties and implement a constitution along the line of the Turks. Instead, we surrendered to the people who are attacking us in New York - jihadists and Islamic Republic nutcases.

Botnst was all for the disbanding of Iraq's political and military institutions. I wonder if he feels the same way now?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 12-04-2006 at 10:27 AM.
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