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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:06 PM
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It just said "Iraq's in a civil war!"

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
People who are afraid and/or confused prefer the certainty of authoritarian government. Those who are not, prefer freedom, especially the freedoms inshrined in The Bill of Rights. The leaders of the authoritarians, the Michael Savages, the Limbaughs, the Bushs, fear them and exhort their quivering adherents to demand it's destruction. The ACLU stands in their way, the greatest bulwark and defender of American Freedom in it's history.
Calm down FTL, the planet is still on it's axis. I like the ACLU most of the time and every decade or so get mad enough to give them a small amount of money. It is run by people and sometimes people say and do screwy things. The ACLU has more screwballs than anything short of an alien abduction club. Being looney doesn't make them wrong. Being looney does make them a fun target.

For example, they get their panties all in a wad over treatment of illegal alien combatants. That's fine, let them do their job. But just for giggles I think it would be fun if they would offer some billable prisoner treatment advice to the Al Qaeda and similar organizations.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:31 PM
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The amount of bullshit floating around is incredible. If you have some link that shows ACLU involvement with the status of alien combatants, I'd like to see it. The ACLU leaves that to HRW or AI. It is focused on US law and US citizens. For an example, here is a search link to the ACLU website, where the search term was simply "combatants". Please review the returned results.

http://www.aclu.org/search/search_wr...imageField.y=2

The ACLU would only be involved in demanding that aliens are accorded the rights guaranteed to them through treaty, not by the Bill of Rights, which anyone in the ACLU would tell you does not apply to non-US citizens. Fer goodness sake, dude, read the thing. The 14th Amendment clearly says it is thus: the Bill of Rights only applies to those naturally born or naturalized as citizens in the USA. Aliens fall under the jurisdiction of the US Judicial and Executive branches, they have minimal rights, if any except as guaranteed by treaty, another constitutional clause.

...

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:43 PM
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Of course this is what the ACLU is gonna post on the ACLU.ORG website. Their views are rosy and peachy, in their own words.

"The amount of bullshit floating around is incredible." from all aspects.....
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:45 PM
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I would suggest you post something that refutes what I stated and what their site shows if you want to be taken seriously.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:52 PM
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Here is an excellent example:

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detenti...g20040623.html

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 07:56 PM
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I presume this will be included in the:
"The amount of bullshit floating around is incredible." File?

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/gr...asp?grpid=6145
-Opposes virtually all post-9/11 national security measures enacted by U.S. government
-Key member of the open borders lobby

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072200643.html
ACLU Sues for Anti-Gay Group That Pickets at Troops' Burials


"The American Civil Liberties Union may be definitely classed as a Communist front or 'transmission belt' organization. At least 90% of its efforts are expended on behalf of Communists who come into conflict with the law. While it professes to stand for free speech, a free press, and free assembly, it is quite obvious that its main function is to protect Communists in their activities of force and violence in their program to overthrow the government."

-- Report of the
California Senate Fact-Finding
Subcommittee on Un-American Activities,
, 1943

"[W]e believe the ACLU is hurting America by constantly suing to further an extremist agenda. The ACLU is currently defending child molesters, attacking school boards for using the word 'Christmas,' and demanding that high schools fund clubs for homosexual students. Talking Points believes the ACLU is using legal terror to punish those with whom they disagree."


-- Bill O'Reilly, ,
"Where Does the ACLU Get Its Money,"
The O'Reilly Factor, Fox News Channel, 1/7/03 .
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 08:12 PM
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Your first link, 'the discover network' is some kind of wacko right site, and not worth the time of serious discussion. Most of it's assertions look like exaggerations and distortations. The claims the ACLU "organized rallies" sounds stupid, I have never heard of the ACLU ever doing anything of the sort, and I also get the impression your website would describe a few democrats gathering for lunch as a "communist rally"

The other case, of the protestors at the soldier's funeral, has little to do with the assertion the ACLU is defending foreign nationals in US court. But it is actually an excellent example of what the ACLU does. The protestors claim they have a religious view that America is being punished by God. They have a right to both express their religious views, and their free speech activities are also protected by the Bill of Rights. The State claims it can keep this group from excercising those rights. An excellent case for the court to decide.

Your other assertations, standard rightwing claptrap that the ACLU is "communist", man give me a fucking break. You don't like what they do, feel free to go to court and give your money to the lawyers on the opposite side. If the ACLU is "communist", so is every judge and jury who decided a case in their favor. You claim some sort of power they have simply by filing suit. Are they judge and jury? Are they the fucking Congress? Why do they win all the time? And WTF is "legal terror"? Are you advocating closing off the judicial system to certain people? Why don't we close it off to you?

BTW- did you check under your bed for commies?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
They have a right to both express their religious views, and their free speech activities are also protected by the Bill of Rights. The State claims it can keep this group from excercising those rights. An excellent case for the court to decide.
Express views (read: Protest) at a funeral? You would stand for that?
A military personnel’s funeral? Or even a close friend/family member?
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 08:31 PM
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I find it disgusting. But they are within their rights as long as they obey laws against creating a disturbance or trespass. If they held up a sign telling people to believe in a just and loving God, would you ban that also? In other words, does the state have a right to ban one thing and allow another based on political or religious content, or are all people created equal? And what about the counter-prosters at the funeral, are they not violating the same law? Why is one group targetted by you for arrest, and the other not?

Nothing in the law gives us a right to be protected from being outraged by other people's opinions.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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