Bring Sadam back? - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 07:32 PM
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The only people who are excused are those in authority who took the time to understand the realities of the situation, then acted as the responsible stewards of our government that they were elected to be. I don't care what party they belonged to, culpability is assigned on an individual basis. If one went along with the program to support his/her president, while another went along because he/she feared the personal ramifications of doing otherwise, they are equally guilty, and should be gently nudged into finding another avenue of employment by the electorate.

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post #62 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
The only people who are excused are those in authority who took the time to understand the realities of the situation, then acted as the responsible stewards of our government that they were elected to be. I don't care what party they belonged to, culpability is assigned on an individual basis. If one went along with the program to support his/her president, while another went along because he/she feared the personal ramifications of doing otherwise, they are equally guilty, and should be gently nudged into finding another avenue of employment by the electorate.
I don't have any issue with that. I just don't think you can cite the failure to perform by the Senate and House as evidence that Bush was not solely responsible for the orders issued to the men and women of the Armed Forces who invaded Iraq, and the consequences that ensued.

Jim
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post #63 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 05:41 AM
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I don't have any issue with that. I just don't think you can cite the failure to perform by the Senate and House as evidence that Bush was not solely responsible for the orders issued to the men and women of the Armed Forces who invaded Iraq, and the consequences that ensued.

Jim
The Congress, back in the early 1960's, ceded it's authority to declare war to the presidency under the War Powers Act. This was passed as part of the MAD policy -- so that the president wouldn't have to wait for Congress in order to retaliate to a surprise nuclear attack. It allows the presient to engage in hostile military actions on his own authority merely by notifying Congress at certain intervals.

Since then presidents have abused the act like a noncom at Abu Graib.

What Congress did before the Iraq War was effectively give pre-certification, another baby-step down the slippery slope it created 40 years ago. Not a member of Congress has said the vote they took was illegal. Every one o fthem had access to the same intelligence as the intelligence committees if they so chose to exersize that option. Most of them didn't even read the information provided to the Intel Committees of both houses. Even some of the Committee members themselves didn't read that intel.

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post #64 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 09:20 AM
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If we can't have a real trial, I would be good to see a publicly televised mock court a la Nuerenberg to expose the incompetence of the members of Goverment to even the most die hard supporters. As an added benefit, this would also make them unemployable to their corporate paymasters.
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post #65 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 11:17 AM
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Why?
Money.
Any other reasons are secondary.

Bring him back? We should never have invaded in the first place.
(I'm STILL saying it.)
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post #66 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Why?
Money.
Any other reasons are secondary.

Bring him back? We should never have invaded in the first place.
(I'm STILL saying it.)
Amen brother!
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post #67 of 84 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 04:02 PM
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Rumors and Retribution
Lewis Alsamari
Rumors were spread by word of mouth. Some of them were exaggerated in the telling, no doubt, but even the most grisly were not, I am sure, so very far from the truth. AIDS, we were told, was a Western disease, an epidemic confined to the relative promiscuity of the non-Arab world. I was walking down 14th Ramadan Street with Hakim one day, however, when we noticed a poster in a shop window. The names of four women were printed in large letters, and text below the names urged anyone who knew these women to report them to the authorities. They were HIV-positive, the poster informed us, and were part of a wicked Zionist plot to spread AIDS around our great nation.

Hakim and I did not know the women, of course, so we thought little more about them, although the posters continued to appear in shop windows across Baghdad. A few weeks later, however, word spread that the women had been apprehended. The authorities had made no effort to arrest them formerly, and they certainly had not been given any opportunity to defend themselves through any legal process. Instead they had been taken to Abu Ghraib prison, twenty miles west of Baghdad.

The notoriety of Abu Ghraib was enough to chill the fervor of even the most revolutionary citizens. Thousands of men and women were crammed into tiny cells ... abuse, torture, and executions were daily occurrences.
The notoriety of Abu Ghraib was enough to chill the fervor of even the most revolutionary citizens. It was said that thousands of men and women were crammed into tiny cells and that abuse, torture, and executions were daily occurrences. The regime tested chemicals and biological weapons on the inmates, and some prisoners were given nothing but scraps of shredded plastic to eat. Chunks of flesh were torn from the bodies of some prisoners and then force-fed to others. Gruesome tortures involving power tools and hungry dogs were routine, and thousands of people who entered the doors of that fearsome place were never heard from again. It was known that mass graves existed around the country, and it was known in general terms where they were situated; but of course nobody dared to hunt out the final resting places of those poor men and women who had become victims of the enthusiastic guards at Abu Ghraib, for fear of becoming one of their number.

The four AIDS-stricken women were dealt with in a fashion brutal even by the standards of the prison. Stripped of their clothes, they were placed, alive and screaming, into an incinerator so that they and their “vile disease” could be utterly destroyed. In this way Saddam “delivered” our country from the horrific infections of the West and from the inequities of the “evil Zionist state.” I kept quiet about my maternal grandmother’s Jewish heritage. She was one of only a handful of Jews who remained in Iraq during the great exodus of 1950. Before that time there were about 150,000 Jews living in Iraq; now there were fewer than a hundred, and it would have done me no favors if anyone suspected that I might embrace Zionism.

more at Guernica / Rumors and Retribution

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post #68 of 84 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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I'm still sticking to my guns. Removing Sadam was a bad move on all fronts.
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post #69 of 84 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 08:35 PM
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The only rule the Iraqis respected and understood was dictator rule. We gave them freedom to choose and you see what they chose.

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post #70 of 84 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 11:03 PM
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IMO, when American soldiers were sitting atop tanks and trucks, and watched Iraqi's loot without interfering, that was the start of the war being lost.
The military stood idly by and watched the breakdown of law and order, in a Country very much used to order.
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