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post #161 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Here's the much more authoritative source than that crap you and deathprattle make up:
http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1358
Let's see, an internet quote collection database is more "authoritative" than the Churchill Resource Center?

J, did you eat lead as a child?

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post #162 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-26-2006, 11:09 PM
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Are we keeping you up? Sorry!
Yea bitch! Keep your fuckin hole shut!

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post #163 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Let's see, an internet quote collection database is more "authoritative" than the Churchill Resource Center?

J, did you eat lead as a child?
I think I liked you better when you just made things up. But for you, and that douche-bag who pretends to live in London, to claim that because Churchill's quote IS NOT on your website as "PROOF" that he never uttered those words is more ridiculous than any past BS you have put out there as "fact" before. You are a real piece of work!

Proof (positive proof) is what I offered on the quotation database, http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1358 :

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." - Copy to Clipboard
-- Winston Churchill

Just because someone else may have also said that hardly "proves" that Churchill never did. For heaven's sake: Get you shit together!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #164 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
I think I liked you better when you just made things up. But for you, and that douche-bag who pretends to live in London, to claim that because Churchill's quote IS NOT on your website as "PROOF" that he never uttered those words is more ridiculous than any past BS you have put out there as "fact" before. You are a real piece of work!

Proof (positive NOT proof) is what I offered on the quotation database,

Just because someone else may have also said that hardly "proves" that Churchill never did. For heaven's sake: Get you shit together!
J, pay attention:

QuoteDB is NOT an authoritative RESOURCE. While a nice site, it has ZERO reference value.

winstonchurchill.org is THE RESOURCE for Churchill information on the Internet. It would be what is called FACTUAL [as opposed to the stuff from the WH].

When you read a dissertation from a Churchill scholar who states that Churchill never said it, and was never heard to say it, on the Churchill Resource Site, that should be the source you believe.

Hint for future reference. Critical Thinking is a wonderful thing. You should try it as a substitute for whatever Rush has been selling because that has not been working.

On the other hand, with FACTS based debate being so much easier, should you ever start using the concept, our debates will require more effort on my part. But that’s OK too. I would not be here if it were not fun.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.

Last edited by mcbear; 11-27-2006 at 03:00 PM.
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post #165 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Actually, Living Wage cannot be done on a national level, and has to be established on a local/state level. A national plan would have balance issues that could not be addressed.

A national Minimum Wage, on the other hand, is more logical and sets standards that a tremendous number of national, state and local programs use as its key. The fact that it has not raised in 10 years is pretty sad. The cost of living has not stopped growing, food cost more, housing cost more, gas cost over double yet people entering the workforce are stuck with 1996 wages.

Anyone on this board want to go back to their 1996 wages with todays costs?
I still think this is a straw man argument. If you can find me one "family of four" where both parents are living together and working for minimum wage 40-hours a week, I'll show you a family led by two 'adults' so unbelievably lazy and inept that they become statistically insignificant.

I don't think we should make adjustments in minimum wage, nor sanction companies like Wal-Mart, any more than we should spend time and money feeding people who live in fucking deserts.

MOVE to where the fucking money and jobs are, or die. It's a rough world goddammit, and it was at least a little more fair to the majority when there wasn't a government safety net to insulate us and reward the laziness inherent in just about anyone who works for a living.

Nobody has guns to people's heads in America saying "You'll work for Wal-Mart, and you'll take a shitty wage, especially if you're a woman, or you'll take one in the head." The answer for people who have made a poor career choice isn't to fucking legislate or litigate - it is to learn from your mistakes and MOVE ON. If Wal-Mart is the only employer where you live (yeah, right), then MOVE. No money? Stop smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, eating fast food, and playing the fucking lottery. If you can't get THAT, then you don't deserve any of the minimum wage hikes that the heart-bleeders are walking around with priapisms waiting to hand out.

If the employees of Wal-Mart thought it was so goddamned bad, and they started protesting and picketing and unionizing, don't you think most Americans would say "Why don't you just get a job somewhere else?" Say Costco, for instance, which while not as widespread, is reputedly "the only company Wal-Mart fears." http://www.teamster.org/04news/hn_040211_6.htm

Wal-Mart is basically the machine formed by the raw rules of capitalism. They're a classic example of what happens when you scale a fundamentally sound model to it's logical end.
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post #166 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
J, pay attention:

QuoteDB is NOT an authoritative RESOURCE. While a nice site, it has ZERO reference value.

winstonchurchill.org is THE RESOURCE for Churchill information on the Internet. It would be what is called FACTUAL [as opposed to the stuff from the WH].

When you read a dissertation from a Churchill scholar who states that Churchill never said it, and was never heard to say it, on the Churchill Resource Site, that should be the source you believe.

Hint for future reference. Critical Thinking is a wonderful thing. You should try it as a substitute for whatever Rush has been selling because that has not been working.

On the other hand, with FACTS based debate being so much easier, should you ever start using the concept, our debates will require more effort on my part. But that’s OK too. I would not be here if it were not fun.
Maybe YOU should "pay attention!" Negative "proof" is not proof at all!! If you have something positive in nature, such as I do, why don't you post that!!!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #167 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 04:48 PM
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I still think this is a straw man argument. If you can find me one "family of four" where both parents are living together and working for minimum wage 40-hours a week, I'll show you a family led by two 'adults' so unbelievably lazy and inept that they become statistically insignificant.

I don't think we should make adjustments in minimum wage, nor sanction companies like Wal-Mart, any more than we should spend time and money feeding people who live in fucking deserts.

MOVE to where the fucking money and jobs are, or die. It's a rough world goddammit, and it was at least a little more fair to the majority when there wasn't a government safety net to insulate us and reward the laziness inherent in just about anyone who works for a living.

Nobody has guns to people's heads in America saying "You'll work for Wal-Mart, and you'll take a shitty wage, especially if you're a woman, or you'll take one in the head." The answer for people who have made a poor career choice isn't to fucking legislate or litigate - it is to learn from your mistakes and MOVE ON. If Wal-Mart is the only employer where you live (yeah, right), then MOVE. No money? Stop smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, eating fast food, and playing the fucking lottery. If you can't get THAT, then you don't deserve any of the minimum wage hikes that the heart-bleeders are walking around with priapisms waiting to hand out.

If the employees of Wal-Mart thought it was so goddamned bad, and they started protesting and picketing and unionizing, don't you think most Americans would say "Why don't you just get a job somewhere else?" Say Costco, for instance, which while not as widespread, is reputedly "the only company Wal-Mart fears." http://www.teamster.org/04news/hn_040211_6.htm

Wal-Mart is basically the machine formed by the raw rules of capitalism. They're a classic example of what happens when you scale a fundamentally sound model to it's logical end.
mcbare is the original "straw man argument" guy(?). He loves to set it up and then wait for "the usual suspects" to arrive and reinforce his bogus "arguments." It gets very old and very boring!!!!!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #168 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Maybe YOU should "pay attention!" Negative "proof" is not proof at all!! If you have something positive in nature, such as I do, why don't you post that!!!
I stand corrected. Churchill DID say those words. Every one of them. Just not in that particular order. Or any order that resembled that phrase.

Nice try, please play again.

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post #169 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 06:06 PM
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I stand corrected. Churchill DID say those words. Every one of them. Just not in that particular order. Or any order that resembled that phrase.

Nice try, please play again.
Prove it douche-bag!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #170 of 209 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I still think this is a straw man argument. If you can find me one "family of four" where both parents are living together and working for minimum wage 40-hours a week, I'll show you a family led by two 'adults' so unbelievably lazy and inept that they become statistically insignificant.
That is one of the more arrogant, uninformed comments you have ever made. I have to assume it is intended to gain attention and not an honest appraisal of your world view. In small town America there are many folks who work for minimum wage [both parents] because that is the prevailing wage. Their support structure [family] is in the area and that keeps them rooted to the area. Not everyone has the resources to up and "move to where the money and jobs are".

If you want to come to Eastern Kentucky and visit, I will take you to many places that have two adults that work 40 hours each at minimum wage. Try and keep up with them for a week and your ass will be so worn out you would have to be dragged home [no laziness or ineptness]. Or if you don't want to come to Kentucky, I am sure we can find many working families right in the Tulsa area. I have a very good friend who is Asst. Director of Social Services for the Tulsa area and she would have a solid list to fully embarass your contention.

Quote:
I don't think we should make adjustments in minimum wage, nor sanction companies like Wal-Mart, any more than we should spend time and money feeding people who live in fucking deserts.
A bit of a stacked paragraph but seems that the bottom tier has waited long enough for a minimum wage increase. $5.15 per hour is not a living wage.

Regarding sanctions for Walmart, no one has suggested that.

Quote:
MOVE to where the fucking money and jobs are, or die. It's a rough world goddammit, and it was at least a little more fair to the majority when there wasn't a government safety net to insulate us and reward the laziness inherent in just about anyone who works for a living.
So, if you are already making minimum wage, where do you get the money to pick up and move, find lodging, make deposits, sign leases, start without a support infrastructure? Thinking would be very helpful before spouting a paragraph like that.

Quote:
Nobody has guns to people's heads in America saying "You'll work for Wal-Mart, and you'll take a shitty wage, especially if you're a woman, or you'll take one in the head." The answer for people who have made a poor career choice isn't to fucking legislate or litigate - it is to learn from your mistakes and MOVE ON. If Wal-Mart is the only employer where you live (yeah, right), then MOVE. No money? Stop smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, eating fast food, and playing the fucking lottery. If you can't get THAT, then you don't deserve any of the minimum wage hikes that the heart-bleeders are walking around with priapisms waiting to hand out.
That paragraph is just plain chocked full of moronic assumptions. Clear the assumptions from your head, use Critical Thinking and problem solve. Assuming only proves one thing... lack of knowledge.

If you are in a small town, sometimes Walmart, or its counterpart IS the only place to get a job [plus the other couple of places set their wages the same].

Not everyone of your stereotyped "poor folk" drink, smoke, play lottery or waste money. Most actually try to actually get by. Most also aren't waiting for, nor want a hand out. They want fair pay for fair work.

Quote:
If the employees of Wal-Mart thought it was so goddamned bad, and they started protesting and picketing and unionizing, don't you think most Americans would say "Why don't you just get a job somewhere else?" Say Costco, for instance, which while not as widespread, is reputedly "the only company Wal-Mart fears." http://www.teamster.org/04news/hn_040211_6.htm
I have noticed a backlash against Walmart starting to occur based on, among other things, their labor practices and trade practices, so, to answer your question NO, I think Americans are starting to realize that WalMart is not the wonderful company that it like to portray itself to be.

A review of its stock, with only a $0.17 dividend and a below national average PE rating also tells me that the company itself is not as great as the “All American Company” that some like to think.

With the trade imbalance, and focus on slave labor in China, Americans might just show that $9.00 jeans are not that important as ethics.

Quote:
Wal-Mart is basically the machine formed by the raw rules of capitalism. They're a classic example of what happens when you scale a fundamentally sound model to it's logical end.
No, Walmart is a machine formed by greed and a series of unfair labor practices piled on top of a government that has not enforced trade balance issues with China. If you look at their stock over 1, 2, 5 year levels and see their growth, you will see that, while average, they have not grown to epic levels.

Without SLAVE LABOR in CHINA and disregard for Labor laws in the US [$2.6M in fines] Walmart would be just like Kmart or Target. Nothing Classic about that.

McBear,
Kentucky

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