Iraq: Civil War? WayTooEarlyToTell? - Page 23 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #221 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 06:17 PM
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Careful, he says he has a gun and well use it to put a bullet in your head.
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post #222 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:12 PM
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Repeatedly Fingers Cornhole?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #223 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:25 PM
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Back to the original title.

Even Colin Powell said it is a civil war. Now, who wants to dispute?

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post #224 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:30 PM
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Botnst's reasoning on this being an "easy war" with only 3,000 deaths is despicable. In the fourteen years the United States has used Iraq as it's official death camp, probably one million Iraqis have died, while millions more have fled, while the rest live in a world where they envy Hell. Of course, to American war pigs, who gives a fuck, right? Bruce R, our resident genius, thinks we haven't killed enough innocent people and advocates wholesale bombing. Botnst wants US Death Squads to operate in Iraq. These people are fucking insane.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #225 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Shut up or I'll send the black helicopters down there to get you..........
Yeah Bruce, load them up with your fucking atom bombs, whack job.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #226 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 07:38 PM
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Careful what you call him. He thinks D.C. is Iraq.

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post #227 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 08:03 PM
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Al-Sadr loyalists spurn Iraq parliament By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 15 minutes ago



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Six Cabinet ministers and 30 legislators loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr decided Wednesday to boycott Parliament and the government to protest the Iraqi prime minister's summit with President Bush.

Within hours of the announcement, the White House said Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's first meeting with Bush in their key two-day summit in Jordan was canceled. Senior Iraqi lawmaker Redha Jawad Taqi said the meeting was canceled at the request of the Iraqis after al-Maliki learned that the Jordanian monarch planned to broaden the discussion to include the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Two senior officials traveling with al-Maliki, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information, said the prime minister had been reluctant to travel to Jordan in the first place and decided, once in Amman, that he did not want "a third party" involved in talks about subjects specific to the U.S.-Iraqi relationship.

White House counselor Dan Bartlett denied it was a snub by al-Maliki or related to the leak of a White House memo questioning the Iraqi leader's capacity for controlling violence in Iraq. Bartlett said the three-way meeting had always been planned as "more of a social meeting" and that Bush and al-Maliki would have a "robust" meeting on their own Thursday.

The Sadrists had threatened to quit the government and parliament if al-Maliki went ahead with the Amman summit. But by downgrading their protest to a suspension of membership, they left open a return to their jobs.

One of the 30 lawmakers, Falih Hassan, called Bush "a criminal who killed a lot of Iraqis" and said the American president has no business meddling in Iraq's affairs.

The move came as the country endured another day of scattered violence, with a total of 105 people killed or found dead across Iraq.

In addition, the U.S. military announced the deaths of two more American soldiers.

Heavy fighting continued in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, where clashes between coalition forces and Sunni Arab insurgents have killed scores of militants and civilians in the past few days.

In the day's deadliest violence, U.S. forces backed by aircraft killed eight al-Qaida in Iraq insurgents during a raid near Baqouba that also left two Iraqi women dead, the U.S. military said. The eight were killed in the aerial bombing.

While searching the area, U.S. forces also found the bodies of two females who had died during the fight. No coalition casualties were reported.

The U.S. raid in Baqouba was the second in as many days to kill Iraqi females.

On Tuesday, U.S. soldiers fought with suspected insurgents in Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, killing six Iraqis: one man and five girls, aged seven months, 12, 14, 15 and 17, according to the U.S. command.

Meanwhile, a statement issued by the Sadrist lawmakers criticized al-Maliki's Shiite-dominated government for its decision to request from the United Nations a one-year extension of the stay in Iraq of the U.S.-led multinational force numbering around 160,000. The request was granted on Tuesday.

The Sadr politicians argued that the multinational force played a "suspicious" role in Iraq and accused al-Maliki of ignoring the views of parliament's 275 lawmakers when it sought a renewal of its deployment.

The statement also mirrored the animosity felt by the movement toward the United States and Bush, using a language that harked back to the days in 2004 when the Mahdi Army fought U.S. troops in two major revolts in Baghdad and much of central and southern Iraq.

"This visit hijacked the will of the people during days when the sons of Iraq write their destiny with blood and not ink," said the statement, which referred to Bush as "cursed," the "world's biggest evil" and a "criminal."

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #228 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Botnst's reasoning on this being an "easy war" with only 3,000 deaths is despicable. In the fourteen years the United States has used Iraq as it's official death camp, probably one million Iraqis have died, while millions more have fled, while the rest live in a world where they envy Hell. Of course, to American war pigs, who gives a fuck, right? Bruce R, our resident genius, thinks we haven't killed enough innocent people and advocates wholesale bombing. Botnst wants US Death Squads to operate in Iraq. These people are fucking insane.
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post #229 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 08:16 PM
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The right wing begins to turn on Bush:

Bush Adrift
A disturbing study in lassitude.

By Rich Lowry
The National Review


Is President Bush still the nation’s commander in chief? Yes, he continues to return the salute when boarding Marine One, but it’s a role he sometimes seems on the verge of abdicating.

He has left the question of troop levels in Iraq to the generals on the ground. Gen. George W. Casey Jr. told Bush a few months ago that they would wait and see how Iraq looked after Ramadan, which ended in late October. Well, Iraq looked worse. Now the administration seems to want to wait to see the conclusions of the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group or one of its internal reviews of Iraq policy before making any new departures. In the meantime, Iraq looks still worse. As the administration waits, Iraq burns.

Bush has been at the mercy of events in Iraq. Perhaps that’s forgivable. Even Abraham Lincoln famously confessed, “Events have controlled me.” What’s less understandable is being controlled by other people’s advice. Bush has been presiding over the Iraq War for three years, and he really has no better ideas than might bubble up from his national-security council or from an Iraq Study Group including the likes of Sandra Day O’Connor and Vernon Jordan about how to prosecute the war?

If press reports are to be believed, the grand idea of the Baker-Hamilton Group is start a regional dialogue including Iran and Syria. This recommendation is hopefulness disguised as hardheadedness. It seems admirably tough-minded to be willing to talk to your odious adversaries, but it is wishful thinking to believe that anything useful to American strategic interests can come of it. So long as we are in a downward slide in the Iraq War, Iran and Syria only have an incentive to keep pushing us down and out.

The administration will never find its strategic footing unless it manages to improve the security situation in Iraq, which is the linchpin to political progress there and the key to the geopolitics of the region. Talking to Syria and Iran might hold a slim hope of accomplishing something if we weren’t losing a major war in their backyards.

For all the studying and reviewing, there are only two real options in Iraq: to stabilize the country enough that the democratic government survives or to manage our withdrawal and defeat. Every day that passes without us doing the former increases the momentum for the latter. A few more months of the current deterioration and Democrats will — despite their current disavowals — seek to cut off funding for the war and will pay no political price for it because Republicans will have abandoned the war, too.

Another hot bipartisan idea is to threaten the Iraqi government with our imminent departure to pressure it to perform. But the Iraqis don’t need a démarche telling them we might leave, since it is obvious. The whiff of American retreat isn’t improving conditions on the ground, but worsening them as everyone prepares for what will be the full-blown civil war in our absence.

The way to improve security in the near term is to increase the only force in the country that is even-handed and competent — America’s. It has been obvious for a long time that Iraq needs more U.S. forces, but Bush has never ordered it, because he has been determined to defer to his generals no matter what. Unfortunately, the best generals can be wrong.

Bush simply has failed to run his war. Historian Eliot Cohen describes how, in contrast, the best American wartime president conducted himself: “Lincoln had not merely to select his generals, but to educate, train and guide them. To this end he believed that he had to master the details of war, from the technology to the organization and movement of armies, if only to enable himself to make informed judgments about general officers.”

Bush has taken the opposite approach and — for all his swagger and protectiveness of executive prerogatives — is becoming a disturbing study in lassitude in the executive branch.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #230 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-29-2006, 08:32 PM
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Careful he claims to have a gun.
I bet his key board is sticky.
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