Iraq: Civil War? WayTooEarlyToTell? - Page 20 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #191 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Have you seen who ventures out at night in Southwest DC at night, it's the same kind of situation, with almost the same death rate. Bad people are everywhere, not just in Baghdad
And D.C. is full of IED and snippers? You are confusing a bad neighborhood with a civil war.

So lets expand this a little to show your ignorance. Death rate in DC as of 2004 is 36, resulting from actual losing of a human life by gun fire; in a city of 553,000. At the same period, 848 U.S. soldiers KIA. To date, the war caused over 590,000 Iraqi civilians lives, a number far exceeds the total population of D.C. proper. Why are you comparing the two and what is your point?

You can verify the statistic here:
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonl...atebyState.cfm

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post #192 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 11:57 AM
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Sure, any simple-minded person would agree that Eisenhower started the whole Vietnam thing and Nixon finsihed it so it must have been a Repo war. Genius!

That ingores the fact that Eisenhower sent in a handful of noncombatant military advisors. Escalataed somewhat by Kennedy and blown f**king crazy by Johnson before being brought under control by Nixon.

Vietnam was an equal-opportunity clusterf**k for all Demopublicans.

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post #193 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 12:05 PM
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Vietnam was an equal-opportunity clusterf**k for all Demopublicans.B
That I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Not trying to show which party started the war in 'Nam. I only responded to Bruce's point the war was primary a military move and not politician's ploy.

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post #194 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 12:10 PM
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Bruce since you strongly believe that your opinion is on the correct path, can you tell me why we invaded Iraq?
We invaded Iraq because, based upon what we believed to be true at the time, Iraq was the best first target of a pre-emptive strategy to protect the US.

Sadaam chose invasion over inspection.

EVERYONE thought there were WMDs in Iraq. Please post links to those who claimed otherwise besides Baghdad Bob.

The only question was wether they would be used against our troops and in what quantity.

Let your re-writing of history begin.

Start with Gorbachev shouting, "Mr. Reagan, Tear down this wall!"
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post #195 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elau
And D.C. is full of IED and snippers? You are confusing a bad neighborhood with a civil war.

So lets expand this a little to show your ignorance. Death rate in DC as of 2004 is 36, resulting from actual losing of a human life by gun fire; in a city of 553,000. At the same period, 848 U.S. soldiers KIA. To date, the war caused over 590,000 Iraqi civilians lives, a number far exceeds the total population of D.C. proper. Why are you comparing the two and what is your point?
You can verify the statistic here:
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonl...atebyState.cfm
Ouch bad move on your part, including the web site. Apparently you can't read any better then you can spell.
Your site: Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, year 2004, is 198. where did you get 36? Here's a few more for your perusal: 2003 - 249 dead. 2002 - 264 dead, 2001 - 232 dead, and things have gotten MUCH better. They were knocking off an average well over one a day during the drug wars. Don't tell me what's going on here dummy, I drive through it on a daily basis. Something else you might want to think about, these were only the REPORTED crimes, want to guess how many didn't get reported because they victems didn't think the cops gave a rats ass?
If you can't get the simple numbers right when they are spelled out for you, the rest of your crap comes into question also doesn't it? Ya, I think you definitely showed who is ignorant with this post.
One more thing, do you have a clue as to the death rate in Tikrit, Saddam's home town? Care to bet that it's a bit lower?
Another point: Eisenhower (R) sent in advisors, Kennedy (D) sent in more advisors, but this time some were in active combat, Johnson (D) sent in combat troops, tried to run the war, and ended up and screwing the pooch. Notice a trend here? If you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about, it's best to shut up.
" It's better to be silent and thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt." Get the hint?

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post #196 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by elau
That I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Not trying to show which party started the war in 'Nam. I only responded to Bruce's point the war was primary a military move and not politician's ploy.
You proved nothing, Johnson and McNamara ran that war, and neither one had a clue as to what they were doing. They routinely countermanded and second guessed the requests of the field Generals as to the amount of troops and equipment required.
Johnson got the war going full bore, and screwed it up big time.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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post #197 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
The press has already beat you to that little bit of crap. If you want to equate this to WW II you might want to consider that so far we have only about the same number of troops that we did at D-Day (one battle), and far fewer then any SINGLE theater in that war.
The difference between D-Day in WW2 [which had a formidable defensive enemy force with highly entrenched forces] where we launched 156,000 allied forces with over a 1000 combat ships in support and the Quagmire of Iraq where we have 140,000 forces spread out all over the desert, in full defensive mode, trying to keep peace and fight a war at the same time from an undefined enemy.

Boots on the ground are tired, failing to be rotated, showing signs of burnout [which causes mistakes and death] *Marine Cmdt Conway. Equipment is at failure point [humv2s coming back for refit are being thrown away for scrap at Fort Knox due to wear].

On the sad side, we lost a pilot today as his Falcon went down.

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post #198 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Also, after the confrontation of organized armies ceased over 60 years ago, we still have a military presence in those countries.

Which I would like to stop, but that's a subject for another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
You have to wonder what they would do if we pulled out, and they actually had to think about protecting themselves. The cash flow through those bases to Germany and Japan is fairly significant as well.
Well, Germany CAN protect itself along with its EU/NATO allies. Japan also has one of the most expensive "Defense" forces in the World.

I agree with Bruce that they would miss the US Dollar both in Lease and local business but my understanding is the modern soldier is not as gentlemanly as some of our predecessors so I would guess they would NOT miss the Great American White Snake so common in Southeast Asia in the 60’s and 70’s.

I do not agree that we should pull out of those areas if we are still welcome, however. That forward projection is a necessary evil if we are going to continue to either be the World’s policeman or continue our current reckless Foreign Policies.

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post #199 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elau
And D.C. is full of IED and snippers? You are confusing a bad neighborhood with a civil war.

So lets expand this a little to show your ignorance. Death rate in DC as of 2004 is 36, resulting from actual losing of a human life by gun fire; in a city of 553,000. At the same period, 848 U.S. soldiers KIA. To date, the war caused over 590,000 Iraqi civilians lives, a number far exceeds the total population of D.C. proper. Why are you comparing the two and what is your point?

You can verify the statistic here:
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonl...atebyState.cfm
DamnIt elau, quit with the logic and statistics and links to "facts". It ruins a perfectly good illusion of a winning policy.

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post #200 of 318 (permalink) Old 11-27-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
We invaded Iraq because, based upon what we believed to be true at the time, Iraq was the best first target of a pre-emptive strategy to protect the US.

Sadaam chose invasion over inspection.

EVERYONE thought there were WMDs in Iraq. Please post links to those who claimed otherwise besides Baghdad Bob.

The only question was wether they would be used against our troops and in what quantity.

Let your re-writing of history begin.

Start with Gorbachev shouting, "Mr. Reagan, Tear down this wall!"
You really need to read the 9/11 Commission Report which will address your points 1, 3, 4. Also, no one ever, EVER said there was an urgent need to address Saddam's alleged WMD except the WH. Saddam had never made a single threat against the US to use weapons against us. He had NO terrorists based in his country [he did not like their religious zealotry], unlike now where they franchise faster than McDonalds.

You should also read archival news reports and magazines from England, Germany and France [to name just three] and see their view of the crisis that was unfolding to see a completely different perspective than the firestorm of media/politics that occurred here. From their perspective, and the experts of their intelligence communities [which somehow got it RIGHT] we were heading down the wrong path from day one.

I think if you were to read a broad spectrum of news, from across the world, you would realize that it is not the Liberals that is trying to re-write history. More like the WH acting like a kitty covering up a big steamer of shit it had just laid.

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