Should Rumsfeld be tried for War Crimes? - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: Should Rumfeld by tried for war crimes?
Yes 15 45.45%
No 14 42.42%
Undecided 4 12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Fair enough -- betcha quarter Rummy stays stateside.

just like T. Franks... they ain't going nowhere fast.



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post #62 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:17 PM
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I'm also for getting this country back on the path of peaceful benevolence, and putting this entire sordid affair behind us...
To the extent you’d be opposed to congressional hearings?

I think the people have a right to know how we got into this mess and what’s happening now.
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post #63 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by guage
WWII "42-45" we invaded a number of sovereign nations. Didn't hear anybody crying about it. Probably because those nations were at war with us or occupied by those at war with us.

Now, with that standard in mind, you research the Cease-fire signed at Safwan in 1991 and the actions of Iraq in the 45 days after signing the Cease-fire.
Whats the difference between a cease-fire and an armistance.
In WW2 we, Allied Forces, went into occupied countries such as France and Belgium that had been taken over by Germany and we were, as a group, freeing them -- with their invitation. Germany declared war against US on Dec. 8, 1941 completing their previous declarations against England, France and let's not forget Poland [plus a bunch of others].

You cannot apply WW2 as a standard to Iraq, under any circumstance. It does not fit. Iraq did not violate standards of their cease-fire agreement ending GW1. They followed all measures according to UN inspectors. All of the residual "WMD" found was proven to be 13 year old dumped shell casings and poorly disposed of materials. They honored the rules [poorly].

But, all that is moot. The war happened. That is not what the international investigation is all about. It will be about prisoner abuse and violations of the Geneva Conventions -- those rules we built from the ground up to help protect troops from harm should they ever be captured.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #64 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:23 PM
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Bush and Co. were well established as mass-murderers before the 2004 election. Call it mass murder, call it invasion -- in the absence of provocation it amounts to the same thing. ...
The key word is the definition of provocation. According to the majority in Congress, whose speeches we can read ad naseum, the overwhelming majority believed there was provocation. At least until later when the voted against it.

As far as American law goes the war was legal. Even if Bush lied and also molested young Iraqi children, and kicked baby seals, it was still a legal vote.
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post #65 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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The position of the Democrats is that they were given false and fraudulent intelligence reports and based their vote on that. Even Dick Armey, Republican uber-conservative, asserts this was the case. I think we should look into the matter, don't you? Or are you sleeping comfortably in your blanket assertations?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #66 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jdc1244a
To the extent you’d be opposed to congressional hearings?

I think the people have a right to know how we got into this mess and what’s happening now.
Not at all, that's quite different than airing our dirty laundry out on an international stage. Congressional hearings, if conducted without undue malice, are smack dab in the middle of the path back to peaceful benevolence, IMHO.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #67 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
The position of the Democrats is that they were given false and fraudulent intelligence reports and based their vote on that. Even Dick Armey, Republican uber-conservative, asserts this was the case. I think we should look into the matter, don't you? Or are you sleeping comfortably in your blanket assertations?
Different question. I was addressing the legality of the war, not the veracity of the info that got us there.

Concerning that info, I believe there is already a almost complete report conducted on orders from Congress. Portions of which have been released, but not all.

I'm kind of dancing around your central question because I am waiting for some parameters.

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post #68 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:30 PM
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I have not seen that. What is the source. What I have been reading from the European press is that prisoners from several European countries that were held at Gitmo were the ones that started this last year but the issue could only be started once one of the players retired/resigned/was fired.

Not trying to be argumentative with that question by the way, I have been looking around trying to see who first stirred the turd on this and the Gitmo prisoners was the only sources that I have found to date.
http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp
post #69 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Exit polls showed 60% in favor of congressional investigations of the Iraq War.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #70 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Exit polls showed 60% in favor of congressional investigations of the Iraq War.
Lets get rid of those pesky people in Congress and that goofy anachronism, the presidency, and just run the country using popularity polls.

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