Should Rumsfeld be tried for War Crimes? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: Should Rumfeld by tried for war crimes?
Yes 15 45.45%
No 14 42.42%
Undecided 4 12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
I simply don't support your suicide pact with those who want us dead.

The former SecDef has nothing to do with this.

You want him stripped of his protections as an American citizen, just like Al Quaeda would like to subject you to their justice.

So STFU and get on a plane to Tora Bora for your trial.
SecDef had EVERYTHING to do with this. He called the shots on how Prisoners were handled, how they were/are represented, how "torture" is defined during interrogation. He decided which Geneva Convention articles to “fudge” [unless he decides to pass that decision up the ladder a rung or two]. He was in charge of ALL troops and their ROI. If the ROI did not meet International Law, it is SecDef that is responsible.

So SecDef is had everything to do with what the World Court is interested in, unless he wants to push the responsibility up the chain of command. There are only two links above him.

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post #32 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Shane
I do not want to see the neocons dragged out on a world stage. That would do the USA no good. Bush and Co. are our problem and we will handle it ouselves, by making sure history bookmarks him for the accidental, simple, monster that he was. The democrats have the upper hand and if they are smart they will keep it for years instead of blowing all their newfound righteousness away just like the neocons did after 9-11. If the dems are too aggressive they will lose the upper hand.
The Democrats have nothing to do with World Court or German Court or Iraqi Court actions. That is a completely different game.

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post #33 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:13 AM
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It is not "what I want", just my opinion of the landscape.
We gave up our right to sovereignty on the Iraq issue the second the first bomb of Shock and Awe hit the ground. We utilized the UN as a vehicle to build the “Coalition of the Willing” and placed us squarely in the International stage. We put prisoners in Gitmo and moved them around in different countries that were “conducive” to our needs. We violated the Geneva Conventions.

This administration placed itself on the International stage through these processes and actions. IF we broke INTERNATIONAL LAW, and many International Law scholars believe we did, it is not up to us, the US, the Administration or the Department of Justice to decide whether or not we relinquish sovereignty.

While we have the right to "punish" Bush for actions he may have done here, I truly fear that where he is going to be judged is not in Congress, or just by History. He may skate but will be judged by proxy if World Court goes after the big players as they step down or their terms expire. Remember, we wrote many of those Prosecutorial procedures that are going to be used against us.
And how will this make the U.S. a better place? Do you want to bend to the will of international sanctions? What if the Chinese want to establish military bases here? Is that OK too? How about no-fly zones and WMD inspectors? World powers don't simply hand over their leaders. You know why? Because it sends a strong signal that they're no longer world leaders. The course of action you suggest, while possibly just, is submissive and ultimately harmful to our nation and all of its constituents. As is our relationship with the UN, which should have been severed long ago.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #34 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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The purpose of it is to show the world the American People regret what has happened and recognize the need for simple justice before the people who have been wronged. This would never happen in a million years in a US court. There is also the question of simple conflict of interest. Half of the judges and much of the jury pool are part of the Bush political equation. If one carried your argument to conclusion, if Bush had gassed six million Jews from the countries surrounding the US, you would give him a pass.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #35 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:18 AM
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But the American people assumed full responsibility for it when they reelected Bush in '04. I could understand your perspective better had that not occurred, but Bush had 300,000,000 accomplices, and that changes the landscape dramatically, IMHO.

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post #36 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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That is a valid point. But to me, the question of fraud gives them a pass. The American people were defrauded by false official communications of the US Government put out by the Cabal, the same way the German people were defrauded by the falsehoods of the Nazi Party. Like our lack of WMDs there really was no World-Wide Jewish Conspiracy. Do you not agree that we were essentially defrauded of our votes?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #37 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
That is a valid point. But to me, the question of fraud gives them a pass. The American people were defrauded by false official communications of the US Government put out by the Cabal, the same way the German people were defrauded by the falsehoods of the Nazi Party. Like our lack of WMDs there really was no World-Wide Jewish Conspiracy. Do you not agree that we were essentially defrauded of our votes?
I think the cards were on the table before the '04 election, weren't they? You could easily make that case for the '00 election, but I don't think it holds up in '04.

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post #38 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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The shame of this nation is found in your statement.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #39 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:48 AM
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You jerks, this should NOT even be a topic of discssion. Maybe you should be tried for treason for posting this topic.
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post #40 of 132 (permalink) Old 11-11-2006, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
You mean the women who was set up to take the fall? Tell us, we are on the edge of our seats.
Surely you know more about her than that.

As long as you're in the neighborhood, tell us about courts martial investigations.
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