God forbid, the DEMS may actually may have to stop sitting on the fence - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 10:02 AM
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Yep and the day you loose a leg because you got switched with another patient then you will appreciate getting some $$ just so you can afford a van witha toilet seat. The best health care system we can come close to is Canada's. Ya they have their problems but health care is the least burden on each family's finances. This will require governement either you like it or not. Of course it can be privatized and highly regulated but I am certain that there will be no takers unlike Social Security which looks like a potential cash cow for some private blood suckers that would love to "fix it".
I wouldnt want Canada's system ever. I have known people who have died waiting for services that would have been addressed over here in a heart beat. Too I have met a few that come over here to our system and pay for the services out of pocket to avoid the catastophy up north. No thanks I with Bot on this.

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 10:13 AM
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I wouldnt want Canada's system ever. I have known people who have died waiting for services that would have been addressed over here in a heart beat. Too I have met a few that come over here to our system and pay for the services out of pocket to avoid the catastophy up north. No thanks I with Bot on this.
Look you may have a point in terms of applying the Canadian system as a blanket system but would it be nice if you could suggest a solution?
Here is what I have in mind:
A national system that poor and rich contribute a potion of their taxable income into it. say something like 5% or a flat fee say $500 a year. EVERYONE can use the system, that will be the baseline. The rich or anyone with funds can bypass the system or anytime there is a waiting line and pay in full for private consultation and services. No problems there. In addition people can invest in supplemental health coverage just like you would do with life insurance that way a good portion of the population can afford the higher end medical care out there.
The idea here is to have coverage for everyone for basic medical needs like check ups, preventions and emergency care.
Any medical experts here or doctors want to add to or critic this?
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 10:24 AM
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My fear is that if/when they get off the fence they will do what they have been saying they will do: Cut & Run and Raise Our Taxes!

Don't believe everything you think
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 10:25 AM
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My fear is that if/when they get off the fence they will do what they have been saying they will do: Cut & Run and Raise Our Taxes!
I will accept that choice
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 10:38 AM
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A lot of societies benefit from work done here in America. There's virtually no innovation in this field outside our borders. I certainly don't want to eliminate the healthcare market, as any incentive for U.S. companies or individuals to innovate would fly out the window. The next time a super-bug of some kind is unleashed on the world, it will be U.S. companies and U.S. educated doctors who will work to mitigate it. You can't shoot a hole in the healthcare market without impacting the entire system (starting with medical education).

I'm not sure why you think the "tort reform bus" has left, but certainly the lack of tort reform legislation isn't helping to retain practicioners. I think it's time will come, hopefully soon.

I do think that doing something "just because everyone else is" is a fairly shitty justification - it's the epitome of laziness, because it presumes there is no better way (e.g. the proliferation of pretty crappy Microsoft products throughout corporate America).

I won't go so far as to say our system is perfect, but I'm optimistic because the system could improve dramatically with a few minor adjustments for which there's no really good argument 'against'.
I certainly gave rationales that went way beyond "everyone else is doing it".

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 12:55 PM
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We basically have this in place now. Im on a Hospital Board and see how much we spend every year on those that cannot afford insurance and accept that as part of business( essentially its taken off of any profits and at times will be passed on to the consumer, like a tax, often though the doctors will foot the bill). So there is the emergency care and what not taken care of.

As far as check ups and shots are concerned, we have free clinics that I know of in our town and all over Illinois and California that do that as well(and Im sure in other states too).

So adding another layer of buracracy doenst fit with me. Non-profits by far are superior in gettin one dollar of donation to the those who need it.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 01:13 PM
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We basically have this in place now. Im on a Hospital Board and see how much we spend every year on those that cannot afford insurance and accept that as part of business( essentially its taken off of any profits and at times will be passed on to the consumer, like a tax, often though the doctors will foot the bill). So there is the emergency care and what not taken care of.

As far as check ups and shots are concerned, we have free clinics that I know of in our town and all over Illinois and California that do that as well(and Im sure in other states too).

So adding another layer of buracracy doenst fit with me. Non-profits by far are superior in gettin one dollar of donation to the those who need it.
That's applicable for people at the lower extreme and I feel bad for the doctors and hospitals to absorb that cost. It should not be that way. What I proposed should offer fair compensation to doctors from the system.
The biggest problem that we are facing is the middle class being priced out of medical coverage. Employers in many cases are no longer able to cover even partially the cost so they drop coverage, which in turn makes it even harder for the individual to get good rates. At the college where I teach we have less than 100 employees and no one other than Keiser was willing to take us on board. With that and I am paying close to $480 from my pocket every month for the coverage and it's going higher this next roll out to $560. On less than $24K yearly salary you do the math what this is going to do to my monthly budget.
Here in Baltimore City even with that low of a wage I don't qualify for the "free" medical coverage you speak of.
It is not another layer of bureaucracy that I speak of but rather a revamp of the system to adjust to reality and to adapt to the growing seniors' demand that's right around the pike.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 01:46 PM
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My fear is that if/when they get off the fence they will do what they have been saying they will do: Cut & Run and Raise Our Taxes!

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 02:41 PM
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Healthcare is a racket, pure and simple. No one needs to look any further than how the insurance companies have a built in black mail system that forces you to buy it-or else. Case in point: My wife was hospitalized in 1999 for 6 days, had emergency tracheostomy. The total bill for the hospital was $17,200. We got an itemized bill and there were over $2,400 worth of overcharges on it. Padded, per se. After negotiations and a $5,000 down payment, it was 'discounted' to $12,700. We were required to make monthly payments on the remaining balance. They, of course, threatened us with all kinds of BS and we didn't fall for it. After 1 1/2 years of payments, we wore them down. They sent a letter offering to settle the amount for 50% of what was owed to 'clear up old accounts'. The amount they were asking was $2,716. I cut a check for $2,314 and they accepted it as payment in full for a $5,432 balance. We ended up paying the hospital $9,500 for a $17,000 bill. It was great for the hospital because I found out through a lady friend who works for Blue Cross/Blue Shield and she said it would have settled for about $6,000. We paid the barstards $3,500 MORE than the insurance company would have. The same for the doctor bills as well. So if you want to know what's broke, it's the fact that individuals cannot get the same discounts as insurers even though the law requires that they 'bill' the same. So much for 'self insurance'.

As for government healthcare. When are we going to learn that government administrates the least efficient of anyone when it comes to social programs. No one needs to look any further than Social (in)security and the fiasco it has become. We want our healthcare to end up like welfare and SS?

If you really want to fix healthcare, expose the fact that they don't want to cure anything. If cures were exposed for cancer, diabetes and heart disease, it would fix itself. But, really. Is that going to happen? We would be ridding the healthcare business of hundreds of thousands of paying customers so there is no interest in a cure.

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-06-2006, 02:46 PM
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Very good example there! It's the insurance companies that want the status quo, the fleecing needs to go on thanks to lawmakers being paid by those voltures.
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