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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Water Boarding 'No Brainer'

Cheney endorses simulated drowning

Says use of water boarding to get terrorist intelligence is ‘no brainer’

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By Demetri Sevastopulo
Financial Times

Updated: 6:04 p.m. ET Oct 26, 2006

WASHINGTON - Dick Cheney, US vice-president, has endorsed the use of "water boarding" for terror suspects and confirmed that the controversial interrogation technique was used on Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the senior al-Qaeda operative now being held at Guantánamo Bay.
Cheney was responding to a radio interviewer from North Dakota station WDAY who asked whether water boarding, which involves simulated drowning, was a "no-brainer" if the information it yielded would save American lives. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney replied.
The comments by the vice-president, who has been one of the leading advocates of reducing limitations on what interrogation techniques can be used in the war on terror, are the first public confirmation that water boarding has been used on suspects held in US custody.
"For a while there, I was criticized as being the 'vice-president for torture'," Cheney added. "We don't torture ... We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth.
"But the fact is, you can have a fairly robust interrogation program without torture and we need to be able to do that."
Cheney said recent legislation passed by Congress allowed the White House to continue its aggressive interrogation program.
But his remarks appear to stand at odds with the views of three key Republican senators who helped draft the recently passed Military Commission Act, and who argue that water boarding is not permitted according to that law.
"[It's] a direct affront to the primary authors of the Military Commission Act in the Senate — John McCain, Lindsey Graham and John Warner — all of whom have publicly stated that the legislation signed by the president last week makes water boarding a war crime," said Jennifer Daskal, advocacy director at Human Rights Watch. "This is Cheney ignoring the consensus of his own Pentagon," she said, referring to comments by senior officials that harsh interrogation techniques do not produce reliable intelligence.
John Bellinger, the State Department legal adviser, last week declined to answer specific questions on water boarding, saying Congress would have to determine whether specific interrogation techniques were permissible under the Geneva conventions.

The Bush administration was forced to work with Congress to pass the Military Commissions Act after the Supreme Court ruled that al-Qaeda suspects were entitled to some protections under the Geneva convention. "Any procedures going forward would have to comply with the standards of Common Article 3 [of the Geneva conventions], including the prohibition on cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Bellinger said. "Congress would have to agree that they are permitted under the law."
Asked in the radio interview whether he would agree that the debate over terrorist interrogations and water boarding was "a little silly", Cheney responded: "I do agree".
"I think the terrorist threat, for example, with respect to our ability to interrogate high-value detainees like Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, that's been a very important tool that we've had to be able to secure the nation," he said.

Copyright The Financial Times Ltd. All rights reserved.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15433467/
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I guess I have to retract since the White House is denying that the veep ever endorsed water boarding: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15443701/
Quote:
Snow: Cheney doesn’t support ‘water boarding’

White House denies vice president’s radio interview championed torture

....He said the question put to Cheney was loosely worded.
Yes as usual it's just a matter of interpretation and whatever might look like a "slip up" it really never happened. Next time I will not doubt Saint Cheney ever again. Are you now happy Jayhawk?
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 06:35 PM
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Khaled Sheik Muhammed was subjected to some sort of stress from water and he spilled everything he knew about Al Qaeda. Excellent. Get more water.

B
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Khaled Sheik Muhammed was subjected to some sort of stress from water and he spilled everything he knew about Al Qaeda. Excellent. Get more water.

B
Yes keep missing the point and one day it might be you or me taking in water because some brown shirt felt like we think too much
Worse yet, a scenario that could happen sooner is an American POW subjected to it because we do it.
The fact that we resort to torture is because we are incapable of putting an intelligence apparatus that can infiltrate these people and anticipate what they might be about to do or simply where in the hell is everyone, but hey, what can I say? You are convinced that we are doing the right thing and our actions will actually bring down terrorism because we will win all of their heart just like Saddam did.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Yes keep missing the point and one day it might be you or me taking in water because some brown shirt felt like we think too much
Worse yet, a scenario that could happen sooner is an American POW subjected to it because we do it.
The fact that we resort to torture is because we are incapable of putting an intelligence apparatus that can infiltrate these people and anticipate what they might be about to do or simply where in the hell is everyone, but hey, what can I say? You are convinced that we are doing the right thing and our actions will actually bring down terrorism because we will win all of their heart just like Saddam did.
Oh, you think I don't understand the ramifications of stressful interrogation?

Americans captured by these Islamist bastards being waterboarded would be a great improvement.

The remainder of your post is kind of emotionally confused. Maybe when lucidity returns we can have an adult discussion.

B
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-27-2006, 09:53 PM
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I'm a "don't ask don't tell" guy. If an FBI guy thinks he is on to something i important, I will go have a latte while he takes the guy out back and drill holes in his shins with his favorite Black and Decker, but whatever he gets out of him better be good. We all know it's "illegal" to squeeze someone's head in a hot waffle iron, but we also know when to kind of give the boys a pass on it. It's the idea of making this stuff "legal" that bothers me, for many of the same reasons offered by the Prof.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
Yes keep missing the point and one day it might be you or me taking in water because some brown shirt felt like we think too much
Worse yet, a scenario that could happen sooner is an American POW subjected to it because we do it.
The fact that we resort to torture is because we are incapable of putting an intelligence apparatus that can infiltrate these people and anticipate what they might be about to do or simply where in the hell is everyone, but hey, what can I say? You are convinced that we are doing the right thing and our actions will actually bring down terrorism because we will win all of their heart just like Saddam did.
We don't hear too much about our guys getting tortured, because it's hard to talk with your head cut off.... Maybe we shouldn't take prisoners anymore, would you like that better?

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
We don't hear too much about our guys getting tortured, because it's hard to talk with your head cut off.... Maybe we shouldn't take prisoners anymore, would you like that better?
Nice strawman, man!

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I'm a "don't ask don't tell" guy. If an FBI guy thinks he is on to something i important, I will go have a latte while he takes the guy out back and drill holes in his shins with his favorite Black and Decker, but whatever he gets out of him better be good. We all know it's "illegal" to squeeze someone's head in a hot waffle iron, but we also know when to kind of give the boys a pass on it. It's the idea of making this stuff "legal" that bothers me, for many of the same reasons offered by the Prof.
On that we agree. I'm of the Allen Dershowitz school of torture.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-28-2006, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
On that we agree. I'm of the Allen Dershowitz school of torture.
Both of you are cowards
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