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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Talking Turkey, French style.

BBC News 12/10/06

French in Armenia 'genocide' row


The French parliament has adopted a bill making it a crime to deny that Armenians suffered "genocide" at the hands of the Turks, infuriating Turkey.
The bill, which provides for a year in jail and a heavy fine, still needs approval from the Senate and president.

Turkey called the decision a "serious blow" to relations with France. It has already threatened economic sanctions.

Armenia says Ottoman Turks killed 1.5 million people systematically in 1915 - a claim strongly denied by Turkey.

Turkey has been warning France for weeks not to pass the bill.

The opposition against Turkey in the EU has begun to present an ugly face

Cengiz Candar
Turkish commentator


Turkish press divided
Send us your comments

"Turkish-French relations, which have been meticulously developed over the centuries, took a severe blow today through the irresponsible initiatives of some short-sighted French politicians, based on unfounded allegations," the Turkish foreign ministry said.

The vote, in the lower house of the French parliament on Thursday morning, was sponsored by the opposition Socialist party.

The ruling Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) did not back the law, but gave its deputies a free vote.

It passed by 106 votes to 19, despite the French government signalling its opposition.

Ethnic Armenians in Paris celebrated the result.


The French bill has brought strong protests in Turkey

"The memory of the victims is finally totally respected," said Alexis Govciyan.

But the French foreign ministry described the bill as "unnecessary and untimely".

Under the bill, anyone denying genocide could be punished with a one-year prison term and 45,000-euro (£30,000) fine - the same punishment that is imposed for denying the Nazi Holocaust.

EU membership bid

Debate on the Armenian issue has been stifled in Turkey.

The official Turkish position states that many Christian Armenians and Muslim Turks died in fighting during World War I - but that there was no genocide.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul says many Turks are angry at what they see as double standards in the EU, where opinions are sharply divided about whether Turkey should be allowed to join.

Turkey's chief negotiator in EU membership talks, Ali Babacan, said: "This is violating one of the core principles of the European Union, which is freedom of expression."

"Leave history to historians," he added.

France's President Chirac and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy have both said Turkey will have to recognise the Armenian deaths as genocide before it joins the EU - though this is not the official EU position.


Arguments have raged for decades about the Armenian deaths

The European Commission has said that the bill, if passed into law, will "prohibit dialogue which is necessary for reconciliation" between Turkey and Armenia on the issue.

Wednesday saw Turkish politicians consider a law that would make it a crime to deny that French killings in Algeria in 1945 were genocide.

But Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan objected, saying: "You cannot clean dirt with dirt; you can only clean dirt with clean water."

France has about 500,000 people of Armenian descent - thought to be the largest Armenian immigrant community in Western Europe.

There are accusations in Turkey that the Armenian diaspora and opponents of Turkey's EU membership bid are using this issue to prevent Turkey joining the 25-member bloc.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 04:07 PM
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Un ordre de virement permanent , poke the Arab ! .

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 04:53 PM
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That's funny in a kind of stupid way.

I love the line, "Turkey called the decision a "serious blow" to relations with France. It has already threatened economic sanctions."

It's FRANCE, for goodness' sake.

Just threaten war, they'll surrender, and Turkey grows substantially overnight.

Of course, it will take some doing for the Turks who move to the "New Turkey" to learn not to bathe and to like smelly cheeses, but they'll get used to it.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. (Winston Churchill)
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gregs210
That's funny in a kind of stupid way.

I love the line, "Turkey called the decision a "serious blow" to relations with France. It has already threatened economic sanctions."

It's FRANCE, for goodness' sake.

Just threaten war, they'll surrender, and Turkey grows substantially overnight.

Of course, it will take some doing for the Turks who move to the "New Turkey" to learn not to bathe and to like smelly cheeses, but they'll get used to it.
Great idea and perpetuates a wonderfully accommodating Gallic tradition.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 05:46 PM
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I don't agree with France passing a bill on history rather than a live bill that its people can use. This is like passing a bill that would fine or procecute anyone denying that our civil war ever happened.
The French don't have clean hands with Algeria and how in the hell do they think they can tell the Turks anything.
I am certain that this legistlation is from pressures from the large population of Aremenians in southern France (you know just like the shit that happens here when a group of people can control vote). It is totally misguided, the Armenians have the right to have history corrected and that Turkey acknowledge its wrong doing, but passing legistlation in a third country like France is total stupidity.
What's next? The US congress follows suite too?

Last edited by DP; 10-12-2006 at 05:48 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 06:15 PM
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Laughable!
France, a former colonial power accumulated vast wealth from the slave trade and the exploitation of the enslaved negroes.
With its gruesome history, it's kind of ironic that they would take such a stance on the Armenian genocide.
I believe there is an ulterior motive at play.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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It's simple, France does not want Turkey in the EU, but being French with their faux libertarian pretentions, they don't want to say-so straight up.
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