Its official: This war was a really stupid idea - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140
In a matter of speaking, yes because I'm an American and America committed crimes against humanity thanks to the keen ole 'fellas in the White House.
Crimes against humanity?

Stalin. Hitler. Mao. Pol Pot. Bush.

All the same?

How many tens of millions has Bush intentionally murdered so far?

Reminds me of Hillary calling underwear on prisoners' heads and "attrocity".

Just like the other attrocities in our time. The Holocaust. The Killing Fields. The Great Leap Forward. Ther Pogroms. Abu Ghraib.

A dog is a boy is a fish is a frog. All the same.
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:39 PM
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America shouldn't do that. BTW When did this happen? I watch Fox News all the time and never heard a word about it.
It was on "The View". Rosie mentioned it a few times and the audience clapped.
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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:43 PM
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It was on "The View". Rosie mentioned it a few times and the audience clapped.

LOL. The View IS a crime against humanity.
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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Actually we do have a reason.

Invading Iraq was a pro-active attempt to prevent the nexus of WMDs and those who would use them against us. Instead of waiting to be hit again, and then "catch the criminals" he decided that he would use the military to clean out places in the world that represented the greatest danger.

Sadaam's Iraq- based on everything the world believed at the time- was the logical place to go.

We believed that he had WMDs. The world believed it. SADAAM believed it. All he had to do was allow inspection to save his country. But he insisted upon hiding...what?
That's not quite true now, and you know it Dave. There was a U.N. inspection team in Iraq nearing the completion of its task, when GW ordered them out and invaded. It was well known that Iraq posed no imminent threat and that the inspectors were about to provide Saddam with a passing grade. The only logical reason for the administration's action in this regard is that they ordered the team out while some small doubt still remained. Cheney didn't care about WMDs, except for their value as an excuse in regard to furthering his agenda. Your excuse for invading Iraq could be used to invade each and every country on the planet.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:46 PM
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You aren't one to appreciate imagery or metaphors, are you?

NO, not really, but good at sarcasm
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
That's not quite true now, and you know it Dave. There was a U.N. inspection team in Iraq nearing the completion of its task, when GW ordered them out and invaded. It was well known that Iraq posed no imminent threat and that the inspectors were about to provide Saddam with a passing grade. The only logical reason for the administration's action in this regard is that they ordered the team out while some small doubt still remained. Cheney didn't care about WMDs, except for their value as an excuse in regard to furthering his agenda. Your excuse for invading Iraq could be used to invade each and every country on the planet.

hey, canada has wmds and terrorists! ohe yeah, they also got a shitload of oil..



in political asylum
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
That's not quite true now, and you know it Dave. There was a U.N. inspection team in Iraq nearing the completion of its task, when GW ordered them out and invaded. It was well known that Iraq posed no imminent threat and that the inspectors were about to provide Saddam with a passing grade. The only logical reason for the administration's action in this regard is that they ordered the team out while some small doubt still remained. Cheney didn't care about WMDs, except for their value as an excuse in regard to furthering his agenda. Your excuse for invading Iraq could be used to invade each and every country on the planet.
Star-

I am not trying to spin anything here.

>>>February 26, 2003
Hans Blix states that Iraq still has not made a "fundamental decision" to disarm, despite recent signs of increased cooperation. Specifically, Iraq has refused to destroy its al-Samoud 2 long range missiles - a weapon system that was in violation of the UN Security Council's resolutions and the US treaty with Iraq. These missiles are deployed and mobile. Also, an R-400 aerial bomb was found that could possibly contain biological agents. Given this find, the UN Inspectors have requested access to the Al-Aziziyah weapons range to verify that all 155 R-400 bombs can be accounted for and proven destroyed. Blix also expresses skepticism over Iraq's claims to have destroyed its stockpiles of anthrax and VX nerve agent in Time magazine. Blix said he found it "a bit odd" that Iraq, with "one of the best-organized regimes in the Arab world," would claim to have no records of the destruction of these illegal substances. "I don't see that they have acquired any credibility," Blix said<<<

"March 7, 2003 Hans Blix reports to the UN Security Council. Blix said basically the same thing as he did in previous reports. Iraq has shown some progress, but has still not yet fully disarmed. Blix also filed a 173 page document with the Security Council which said that inspectors discovered an undeclared Iraqi drone, with a wingspan of 7.45 m (24 ft 5 in), suggesting an illegal range that could potentially threaten Iraq's neighbors with chemical and biological weapons. US satellites tracked test flights of these drones, which were mentioned by Secretary of State Powell .."

March 20...the attack began.

Here is a nice timeline: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_di...line_2001-2003
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveN007
Crimes against humanity?

Stalin. Hitler. Mao. Pol Pot. Bush.

All the same?

How many tens of millions has Bush intentionally murdered so far?

Reminds me of Hillary calling underwear on prisoners' heads and "attrocity".

Just like the other attrocities in our time. The Holocaust. The Killing Fields. The Great Leap Forward. Ther Pogroms. Abu Ghraib.

A dog is a boy is a fish is a frog. All the same.
So your argument here is that because he didn't kill "tens of millions" and cause a holocaust he's not that bad?.
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 05:03 PM
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Also from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Blix's statements about the Iraq WMD program came to contradict the claims of the Bush administration, and attracted a great deal of criticism from supporters of the invasion of Iraq. In an interview on BBC TV on 8 February 2004, Dr. Blix accused the U.S. and British governments of dramatising the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in order to strengthen the case for the 2003 war against the regime of Saddam Hussein.

Newt Gingrich stated that approving Hans Blix as chief U.N. weapons inspector was a mistake made "even though he was clearly opposed to war and determined to buy time and find excuses for Saddam Hussein."

In an interview with London's Guardian newspaper, Hans Blix said, "I have my detractors in Washington. There are bastards who spread things around, of course, who planted nasty things in the media".

In 2004, Blix published a book, Disarming Iraq, where he gives his account of the events and inspections before the coalition began its invasion.

Ultimately, no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction were found, leading to accusations that the United States, and in particular its President George W. Bush had deliberately inflated intelligence or lied about Iraq's weapons in order to justify an invasion of the country.
If you're interested, read the book, or at least a synoptic review.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-29-2006, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Also from Wikipedia:



If you're interested, read the book, or at least a synoptic review.
There really is only one version of history these guys are interested in, the rightwingiverse presented in the far-right media. The power of ignorance is astounding - at this point we have had a number of scholarly works, books written by military experts and even people who worked for the Bush Wehrmacht in one form or another, all saying pretty much the same thing as that Wikipedia article, yet even in the face of all that these guys believe a theory that has absolutely no factual backing and cannot even withstand a casual google search to demolish. Dave presented us with his utterly false "Werewolf" theory on insurgency, for instance, which I would bet he still believes. He believes WMDs were a certainty, because Bush keeps repeating the lie that "everyone thought their were WMDs in Iraq". Well, the UN didn't, because it's inspectors were telling them so, and they were the governing international authority over Iraq. Anyone with google can confirm that. They can also confirm the the International Atomic Energy Commission flatly contradicted the statements of Rice, Bush and Cheney over Iraq having some sort of advanced atom bomb program. People like me were against this war before it even started, because we were educated enough to know this. People like Dave and the other Koolaid drinkers were just sucking in bullshit:

http://www.slate.com/id/2087768/

For once, Dave, put down the Koolaid, and try the truth:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...-indepth_x.htm

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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