Originally Posted by cmitchprint
McBear, I'm enjoying this discussion and I have found so many statements in several posts I'd like to qoute and reply to, that I just don't have enough time but I'll hit the high points.
You maintain there is no FACTUAL evidence that MOST are poor because they are lazy. One thing that we, in our industrial park, met with our mayor about this morning, was the lack of work ethic in today's youth which seems to be attributed to home values, those values NOT instilled by the parent or parents of the youth. Poverty being the #1 underlying reason this value isn't present.While we may disagree WHY poverty exists and the ethics of those who are poor, you must acknowledge that children of poor parents end up being poor for the same reasons their parent(s) are/is poor. From my local observation, laziness begats laziness and irresponsibility begats irresponsibility. Rarely do you see the seed of the lazy become successful in life. They learn ways to play the system just like their fathers/mothers did.
Back to the ethics thing. You know, the #1 complaint by business owners/factory employers was 'half the kids that comes to our place for employment when hired, expect to start at the top and do the least amount of work for the most pay'. This is the root cause of poverty, IMHO, because they have no ETHICS. They do not arrive at work on time, they lay out because of a rough weekend or they fail a mandatory drug test. When these people become unemployable, they become leeches on society that rob, pillage, steal or sell drugs. That is one class of the 'poor'.
Back to the lottery thing. Why is it hard to understand that playing the lottery when you can't even afford to feed your family is an ethical problem? It is this ethic that will keep most of this class of poor right where they're at. The something for nothing mentality that causes them to idle in their mediocrity- mediocre job, mediocre pay and less than desirable transportation.
And finally, back to welfare. Yes , there is a time limit that you can be on welfare and as pointed out, you can draw food coupons (or debit card now) or disability for a lifetime. It is unbelievable how many in our community that draw disability that are capable of work. But yet they choose to draw a less than sustainable income from disability, which translates into LAZINESS that keeps them poor.
Are there poor because of catastrophic events? Yes. Because of economic downturns? Yes. Once we define 'poor' with certainty, only can we realize what actually attributes to this problem. From my experience as a plant manager and business owner, I have to say it still is laziness that attributes to the poverty of most 'poor'.
I know what you mean regarding the work ethic among "those kids today". That statement has been around for the past hundred years. Every generation looks at the generation after it [or more likely the second one after] and sees a completely different work ethic. We [the kids born in the 50's] terrified the adults who were in their 30's - 50's during the 1960's. They knew we were going to run things into the ground -- and sometimes I think we proved them right. We have both the smartest generation and dumbest generation, all wrapped up in one.
We had the weekly roundtable today, and one of the members had just come back from a Promisekeepers meeting and we were going to hear about that AND discuss what we have been talking about here. The group is pretty split in that there are two former Republican state Senators a former state Supreme Court Judge now running for state Senate as a Democrat, six businessmen, two retired military and today we grabbed two of the waitresses who work 50 hour weeks and have kids to join in.
I could write a 20 page paper [and you know I have been known to do that] on the meeting but there were some interesting observations. As an example, lawyers of both parties who see âthe worstâ society has to offer tend to view laziness as a more prevalent trait among the working poor than the group in general but backpedaled like hell when challenged by one of the waitresses to attempt to keep up for just 12 hours. One of the waitresses blew the group away when she laid out her budget, time constraints, child care issues and living conditions based on an average of 13.24 per hour after tips. She is going to school getting an MBA at night and very articulate in expressing both her plight and that of all the staff she deals with on a daily basis.
The biggest surprise I had was how the system feeds the laziness factor. It does so in a very backhanded way in that the âSocial Services Infrastructureâ has a budget that services X number of clients who are disabled and X number who are on long term Food Credit. There is no incentive from the infrastructure to move people off of the system. In fact, if n/X are moved off the system, a number of people employed by the infrastructure would no longer have a job. It is easier [and provides more job security] to keep the status quo for SOME levels of welfare.
My head started hurting sometime after this since I was beating it against the table top so I may have missed some detail but suffice to say, that is an element that I was not expecting. Now before anyone blames this on any party, Kentucky has been Democrat for a bunch of years and Republican for the last eight so there is blame to go around for everyone.
The only program that we all agreed should NOT be touched was the WIC program. That is the program that puts food directly to children and expectant mothers. WIC cards are much harder to cheat and cannot be traded for cigs and beer. Even if the parent is lazy or not trying, WIC at least insures that the kids will get basic wholesome food. Itâs cost is so little in the scheme of things that it does not ping the radar.