Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Originally posted by Bruce R.:
"No Jim, we went to Vietnam because a friendly country (that would be South Vietnam) asked for our help. The North threatened to over run the South and destroy a flegling Democracy."
No Bruce, we were there because the Russians were supporting the North, and the local government in South Vietnam was as corrupt and violent as any other thugs we supported around the world at the time, as long as they gave lip service to our anti-communism and anti-Russia posturing. There was precious little to admire about the South Vietnamese government of the 1960's.
"No Jim, we left because Nixon was forced to withdraw all of the troops that Johnson put in there... How old are you, tell me you weren't old enough to be paying attention and I can have a reason for this laps........ Nothing happened? Are you aware that Saigon is now called Ho chi Minh City? Maybe you missed the part when all the "boat people tried to leave the South going for anywhere they could to get away from the NVA and the NV government that tried to kill them ... Maybe you missed the part when China and Vietnam had a little trist on their border. "
Our purported reason for being there was to resist the feared "Domino Theory" concerning the conversion of all of that area of the globe to communism. The thugs running the South Vietnamese government at the time were not even on the radar screen of rationale for being in Vietnam. I believe you need a refresher course on the facts. And given the way the war progressed, where the locals and "enemy from the invading North Vietnam" acted as one, I doubt there were many Americans truly concerned with the welfare of the great majority of South Vietnam. We took to napalming whole villages. Not in the North where the enemy supposedly came from, but in the South, where the people of South Vietnam lived. And, O oracle of 1960's history, NOTHING related to the Domino Theory happened when we left. America is not the appointed global cop today and we weren't then. Our participation in the Vietnam event caused more people to be killed than would otherwise have been killed. Including 50,000 Americans. And ten times that many maimed and wounded. In the grand scheme of the history of the USA nothing happened when we left, other than the killing we were involved in directly, stopped. In my book that means the local people chose their future and got on with life without American interference.
"Jim, first things first, get your history straight please........ "
Anyone who helped end that war sooner was a hero. We were not going to win as the people who lived there were not behind us. If you think that was the press and tv media, that is ok with me.
"Jim, if you have never been in the Service, you would understand that you haven't got a clue as to what the hell you are talking about. Let me give you an idea of what kind of screw ups can occur in a combat theater....
Saigon was thought to be susceptible to air attack by the Russian built fighters and bombers the North had, so they sent out a call for fighter interceptors. The call went to Clark Air Force Base, for whatever reason they could not or would
not respond. They instead pulled F-102's from Naha Air Base in Okinawa. The aircraft were loaded hot with a full load of missiles and rockets, and drop tanks on the wings. The a/c flew out in the VERY EARLY morning hours, the support
a/c followed later that morning. We arrived at Clark and refueled the C-130's and left again for Ton Son Nut Air Base just outside of Saigon. We stayed with the a/c in Clark, wouldn't let us off the plane, even while they were refueling it, it
was that much of a hurry. We got to Ton Son Nut late in the afternoon and downloaded the equipment and spares and were able to find the tent city they had built for us. OK, no big deal right? Here comes the fun part....We had no spare missiles or rockets, so we ordered them in from Clark, and they sent them. two hundred Falcon missiles. We had to hand unload two or three a/c to get them all. We built a barb wire enclosure for them and hand carried them into the
area. The next day we found out that the missiles didn't have any warheads in them, swell huh? The warheads arrived the next day. We had to hand carry the missiles out of the enclosure take them out of their "coffins" take apart each
missile and then put everything back together again and put the GD missiles back in the enclosure. Four guys on each coffin, the damn things weighed over 1,000 lbs. each.
I'm not telling you this for any other reason but to show you thing just plain do not go the way you plan them, no matter how good you think you are. "
You still miss my point. Invading Iraq at the precise moment Shock and Awe was initiated was not the call of some harried supply officers working a war zone in another part of the world. It was planned and executed by the orders from the DoD. They set up a situation based on their understanding of the situation that has turned out to be a disaster. No one would have denied Rumsfeld another six months to plan the event. The UN might have doused the flames of WMD by then, but there was no urgency from an external threat coming from Iraq that demanded the invasion start any particular day of any particular year. Rumsfeld is no professional soldier. He is a political appointee, a Gahan Wilson character, a fat assed white man sending people to die based on his judgement, who is without a conscience and who has no value for any particular soldier's life.
Yeah, soldiers will make mistakes. But they are in a different situation than politicians inside heavily guarded buildings in the Washington, D.C. area. I can cut a guy some slack for making a bad call when he isn't sure he is going to live to find out if the call was good or bad. That just didn't apply to the people who ordered the invasion of Iraq.