Is Chavez the new rightwing bogeyman for the ole Swift Boat? - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #51 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 01:37 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Kerry's military service was worth a mention, not an entire campaign. By making such an enormous deal of something decades old, he opened himself up to all of this crap. After all, Bush's history of winning elections doesn't even intersect the high road.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 02:04 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
Kerry's military service was worth a mention, not an entire campaign. By making such an enormous deal of something decades old, he opened himself up to all of this crap. After all, Bush's history of winning elections doesn't even intersect the high road.
GS, it was a long time ago, so maybe we recall things differently. I thought it was really a minor part of Kerry's campaign strategy, to contrast his record as a soldier with Bush's lack of combat experience at a time when Kerry was being portrayed as a, well, French Pussy. The Swift Boat campaign by the opposition turned it into a big deal. If the democrats had something equivalent, maybe we could get to the bottom of Bush's coke use and drunken womanizing before he was born again. If there had been some of that in Kerry's past it surely would have been in the campaign, one way or another. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #53 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 02:12 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Jim, perhaps different campaign strategies are put in place in different parts of the country, but out here the Kerry TV spots that highlighted his military service absolutely dominated the airwaves for quite a stretch. "Head On - apply directly to the forehead, Head On - apply directly to the forehead, Head On - apply directly to the forehead" -- yeah, it was almost that bad.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #54 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 02:24 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Maybe I wasn't watching either. TV is not a staple around here. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #55 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 02:52 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Bruce R.'s Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 2005 E320 new toy.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 14,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
"rewriting history to suit your own agenda" -- that is two unprovoked slaps in seven words -- nicely done. Poor little you -- initiating unprovoked personal attacks, then boohooing when I dare to defend myself."

You want to defend yourself from what you perceive to be a personal attack, knock yourself out. If you considered that a personal attack, you must live in a very small world indeed. In fact, if you see that post as a personal attack, what the hell are you doing moderating on the OT forum? That's damn near all that happens here. Believe me if I chose to attack you personally, I'm very good at it, I guarantee you'll know that you've been attacked, I promise you that..... and I will not have to use foul language to do it either, though I have no qualms about returning the kind language aimed at me.

"Is this how you talk to people in real life? I have no idea what you're rambling on about and I don't give a rat's ass."

If you don't know, and don't care, why do you continue to respond? No I don't normally talk to people this way, but people don't normally talk to me the way you have either.

"My simple statement that you decided to go ballistic over was that the mentality toward the armed services in this country was very different during the Vietnam era (say 65 - 71) and W.W.II. We were not defending America in Vietnam, and that was the difference, or so it seems to me. If you disagree -- fine, please do so without resorting to cheapshots."

We were defending a country that requested our help, and it escalated into a Democracy vs. Communism Confrontation when the Russians moved in to support the North. Of course you probably weren't old enough to be aware of what was going on at that point in time. I on the other hand was there, I lived through it, and have done some considerable research to try and find the truth as to what that was all about. I'm still looking, but I appear to have a better
understanding then those that are here.
It would also appear that all you know is what you have read or been told. Clearly I don't know that for a fact, I can only go by what you write. Yes, I do disagree with you, and the way you presented your argument. Something you might want to
keep in mind is how you read what I write may very well NOT be the way I wrote it. Without the tone and inflection of speech, lots is left in the open for the reader to jump to conclusions, and it appears as though you have done just that. I would strongly suggest that you give the writer, any writer, the benefit of the doubt, and allow what YOU read may NOT have been the intent.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
Bruce R. is offline  
post #56 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 03:16 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
"rewriting history to suit your own agenda" equates to calling me a liar, and I take great offense at the suggestion. If you don't mind being called a liar, that's fine for you, but I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Yes, I do disagree with you.....
At the risk of being redundant, if you want to live in your little world of denial, go right ahead. No one avoided service by going to Canada, Mohammed Ali was universally condemned by all Americans, there were no protests against the draft on college campuses, the Kent State massacre was a myth. You're right -- it was exactly like WWII. Everyone in America wanted to go overseas and kill the gooks. If we didn't we would all be speaking Vietnamese by now...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #57 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 04:00 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Bruce R.'s Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 2005 E320 new toy.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 14,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
"rewriting history to suit your own agenda" equates to calling me a liar, and I take great offense at the suggestion. If you don't mind being called a liar, that's fine for you, but I do.
Seems like you have a problem with your own credibility, that would be your problem, not mine. Do people call you a liar very often???
At the risk of being redundant, if you want to live in your little world of denial, go right ahead. No one avoided service by going to Canada, Mohammed Ali was universally condemned by all Americans, there were no protests against the draft on college campuses, the Kent State massacre was a myth. You're right -- it was exactly like W.W.II. Everyone in America wanted to go overseas and kill the gooks. If we didn't we would all be speaking Vietnamese by now...
Actually you're well past redundant and rapidly moving towards RE-DUMB-DENT. I never said that those things didn't happen, I said they DID NOT OCCUR UNTIL AFTER the press got into the swing of things and the "peaceniks" with their drug culture started to run rampant. You might have noticed what I put in caps, I didn't want you to gloss over it again...
"Everyone in America wanted to go overseas and kill the gooks. If we didn't we would all be speaking Vietnamese by now."
That would be another thing I DIDN'T say, and you complain when I wrote about you twisting things (or re writing history) to advance your own agenda? You have got to be kidding.
Oh, and I was right about you being to young to remember all that stuff wasn't I? I didn't see a denial here..............so am I to assume that all you know about it was what you read or were told?
Maybe you're right, maybe I'm living in my own little world, but from what I've seen you write here, I'm not the only one, the thing is, I think my little world is based a bit closer to reality then yours is..... Well maybe a LOT closer to reality.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
Bruce R. is offline  
post #58 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 04:18 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
You're all caught up in why and when -- those things are secondary to my point -- if they matter at all. Again, my point is that the mentality toward the armed services in this country was very different during the Vietnam era (say 65 - 71) than it was during WWII, to which you said "I disagree". Your disagreement suggests that every red-blooded American wanted to enlist just like they did in WWII. I don't really care why, other than to say that the Vietnamese were not threatening our shores. I am certain that my parents did not fear a Vietnamese U-Boat attack.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #59 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 05:04 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Bruce R.'s Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 2005 E320 new toy.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 14,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
I will skip your rhetorical outburst. You take offense where none was intended. I am not critical of the military. I am critical of their civilian masters. The fat white Gahan Wilson characters in Washington, D.C. that figured it was a good idea to send our young men and women over there to combat the spread of evil communism that would otherwise overwhelm us.
No Jim, we went to Vietnam because a friendly country (that would be South Vietnam) asked for our help. The North threatened to over run the South and destroy a flegling Democracy.
When we left, we left because first of all, it was apparent we were not threatened as a nation by North Vietnam. That is evident by the fact that we left and nothing fucking happened.
No Jim, we left because Nixon was forced to withdraw all of the troops that Johnson put in there... How old are you, tell me you weren't old enough to be paying attention and I can have a reason for this laps........ Nothing happened? Are you aware that Saigon is now called Ho chi Minh City? Maybe you missed the part when all the "boat people tried to leave the South going for anywhere they could to get away from the NVA and the NV government that tried to kill them ... Maybe you missed the part when China and Vietnam had a little trist on their border.
If you want to attribute that to the news and media go ahead. Whatever brought that to our attention then should be cultivated and groomed to be able to make such conditions clear to us in the future. You, on the other hand, perceive them as a threat to the military, when in fact they saved our military by forcing our elected fat assed Gahan Wilson characters to be responsible for their decisions. Aim your venom at the appropriate targets.
Jim, first things first, get your history straight please........

Like I said, you presume the criticism was directed at the man with the mission already. That is not where it was directed. Read "Fiasco" to see where the failure to plan and address contingencies happened. Not in the military that is in Iraq per se, it is in the DoD. More Gahan Wilson characters there. When you give the man the mission you should have a plan, especially when the timetable for the mission is entirely up to you.
Jim, if you have never been in the Service, you would understand that you haven't got a clue as to what the hell you are talking about. Let me give you an idea of what kind of screw ups can occur in a combat theater....
Saigon was thought to be susceptible to air attack by the Russian built fighters and bombers the North had, so they sent out a call for fighter interceptors. The call went to Clark Air Force Base, for whatever reason they could not or would
not respond. They instead pulled F-102's from Naha Air Base in Okinawa. The aircraft were loaded hot with a full load of missiles and rockets, and drop tanks on the wings. The a/c flew out in the VERY EARLY morning hours, the support
a/c followed later that morning. We arrived at Clark and refueled the C-130's and left again for Ton Son Nut Air Base just outside of Saigon. We stayed with the a/c in Clark, wouldn't let us off the plane, even while they were refueling it, it
was that much of a hurry. We got to Ton Son Nut late in the afternoon and downloaded the equipment and spares and were able to find the tent city they had built for us. OK, no big deal right? Here comes the fun part....We had no spare missiles or rockets, so we ordered them in from Clark, and they sent them. two hundred Falcon missiles. We had to hand unload two or three a/c to get them all. We built a barb wire enclosure for them and hand carried them into the
area. The next day we found out that the missiles didn't have any warheads in them, swell huh? The warheads arrived the next day. We had to hand carry the missiles out of the enclosure take them out of their "coffins" take apart each
missile and then put everything back together again and put the GD missiles back in the enclosure. Four guys on each coffin, the damn things weighed over 1,000 lbs. each.
I'm not telling you this for any other reason but to show you thing just plain do not go the way you plan them, no matter how good you think you are.


Might be a little different if, say, Pearl Harbor had been attacked in March of 2003.
The way things are now, we would push that under the rug just like we seem to have 9/11.

Why? Jim

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
Bruce R. is offline  
post #60 of 174 (permalink) Old 09-22-2006, 05:34 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Bruce R.'s Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2002 SLK 32 AMG, bone stock. 1987 190E 2.3-16 valve (destroyed). 2005 E320 new toy.
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 14,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
You're all caught up in why and when -- those things are secondary to my point -- if they matter at all. Again, my point is that the mentality toward the armed services in this country was very different during the Vietnam era (say 65 - 71) than it was during WWII, to which you said "I disagree". Your disagreement suggests that every red-blooded American wanted to enlist just like they did in WWII. I don't really care why, other than to say that the Vietnamese were not threatening our shores. I am certain that my parents did not fear a Vietnamese U-Boat attack.
This is what you said that started this bruhaha:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
In the case of Vietnam, I think it simply spoke to the conflict at hand. WWII -- everyone wanted to contribute to the defense of our country. Vietnam -- everyone wanted to avoid going overseas and killing people for reasons essentially unknown.
Now you are hand picking dates, but that's alright, different things happened at different times, and if you're not clear about what you say, you are open to criticism.
The war started long before 1965, and things were VERY different then. At that point in time you are right. Before 1965 you would be considered very wrong...... You cannot expect me to not take offense if I know for a fact that you are wrong.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
Bruce R. is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Hugo Chavez: Democrat Presidential candidate? DaveN007 Off-Topic 55 09-22-2006 09:17 AM
    American Liberals versus Chavez DaveN007 Off-Topic 19 09-22-2006 08:21 AM
    Desperate Republicans plan massive Smear Campaign in huge Swift Boat Attack FeelTheLove Off-Topic 14 09-11-2006 06:59 PM
    Chavez: Venezuela Moves Reserves to Europe lovemyc280 Off-Topic 2 10-01-2005 12:41 PM
    Cheney gets warm welcome in Ole Miss FeelTheLove Off-Topic 7 09-12-2005 12:09 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome