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post #81 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 02:14 PM
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You don't get it. I am not a particularly sympathetic guy to anyone's cause. I find your "Israel Ueber Alles" cause nearly as offensive as the Muslim "we hate you and want to kill you" cause. ....

Now here we are in complete agreement. No need to be sympathetic to Israel at all.

As we all know it's the joos who are flying planes into skyscrapers, beheading infidels, doing forced conversions to Judaism on video and circumcising the unwilling.

During WWII, both before and after America entered into the war, most Americans supported Britain's struggle against Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. Nobody seriously accused them of dual loyalties. Why? Because they saw these twin evils as a common enemy of the United States as well, that's why. And so it is today in the ME. America and Israel have a common enemy that is called Islamofascism. Supporting Israel is not being disloyal to America. In fact the opposite obtains. Our government recognizes this fact and that's why we are the world's principle arms supplier to Israel. That's why their pilots are allowed to train with ours. That's why we have joint scientific and military ventures with them such as the Arrow missile system and others.

Those same people who would like to see America adopt a more "even-handed" policy towards the ME are the same ones who are secretly hoping for an American defeat in Iraq so that they can be proven "right."
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post #82 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Now here we are in complete agreement. No need to be sympathetic to Israel at all.

As we all know it's the joos who are flying planes into skyscrapers, beheading infidels, doing forced conversions to Judaism on video and circumcising the unwilling.

During WWII, both before and after America entered into the war, most Americans supported Britain's struggle against Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. Nobody seriously accused them of dual loyalties. Why? Because they saw these twin evils as a common enemy of the United States as well, that's why. And so it is today in the ME. America and Israel have a common enemy that is called Islamofascism. Supporting Israel is not being disloyal to America. In fact the opposite obtains. Our government recognizes this fact and that's why we are the world's principle arms supplier to Israel. That's why their pilots are allowed to train with ours. That's why we have joint scientific and military ventures with them such as the Arrow missile system and others.

Those same people who would like to see America adopt a more "even-handed" policy towards the ME are the same ones who are secretly hoping for an American defeat in Iraq so that they can be proven "right."
The fundamental problem with "causes" is they are emotionally based and therefore lack any real basis in logic. Your emotional response merely confirms this.

As for supporting Israel, well, there are means of support and then, there are means of support. The means you cited are well within the range of readily measured and assessed cost vs. benefit support means. I don't have a problem with sharing R&D initiatives with, or selling weapons systems to Israel. Like Billy Joel said, "if I don't do it you know someone else will," and in this case support to Israel is readily justified.

Your next emotional outburst is less meaningful and intended to frame the opposition as irrational and anti-American. You can keep that little spurt of bullshit close to your heart as we can see your equilibrium depends on having little seeds of seething hatred of liberals and Islamofacists (sounds like you think they are essentially one and the same) swirling around your consciousness.

Jim
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post #83 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 09:30 PM
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Your next emotional outburst is less meaningful and intended to frame the opposition as irrational and anti-American. You can keep that little spurt of bullshit close to your heart as we can see your equilibrium depends on having little seeds of seething hatred of liberals and Islamofacists (sounds like you think they are essentially one and the same) swirling around your consciousness.

Jim
I disagree. He has a point there as well.
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post #84 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 09:32 PM
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.....
Your next emotional outburst is less meaningful and intended to frame the opposition as irrational and anti-American. You can keep that little spurt of bullshit close to your heart as we can see your equilibrium depends on having little seeds of seething hatred of liberals and Islamofacists (sounds like you think they are essentially one and the same) swirling around your consciousness.

Jim
Sorry but that last paragraph of yours just reeks of hypocricy.

That is a tactic that you, youself, use repeatedly in trying to paint those of us who see America's common values with Israel as somehow reflecting the existence of dual loyalties or as having outright un-Amercian ambitions. The word "traitors" is just beneath your fetid breath. You throw these little turds around all the time in your posts and then you complain when someone turns the tables on you. Here's a few examples from the past where you have insinuated that somehow "we" are less patriotic than you because of our defense of Israel. I have never heard this standard applied to any other country that is a ally of America. If you want to know why I willfully put in that last paragraph in my previous post then read this shit of yours:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
....And you support this, along with any all infringement on our Constitutional Rights and our Constitutional Government, with apparent glee. Having Americans dying in the Middle East apparently relieves some of the Israeli angst about being out there defending their borders perpetually.

.....To hear you support this tactic, merely because your goal, to have American troops die in the ME to soothe your Israeli national nerves is scary, and revolting.....
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.... At times in your arguments you have come close to suggesting that is because you find it ok if America is weakened by supporting Israel.
....
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Originally Posted by JimSmith

While that may be a conclusion you can reach if the fate of Israel is higher on your list of priorities than America ...
Now I have repeatedly explained why I think it is in Amercia's interest to support Israel in the ME conflict. I have given you rational reasons, with which you are free to disagree, for why I think that this is so. And, in return, you have repeatedly come back and questioned my patriotism sometimes overtly and often masked with the thinnest veneer of civility.

I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine and clearly you don't like it.
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post #85 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Now here we are in complete agreement. No need to be sympathetic to Israel at all.

As we all know it's the joos who are flying planes into skyscrapers, beheading infidels, doing forced conversions to Judaism on video and circumcising the unwilling.

During WWII, both before and after America entered into the war, most Americans supported Britain's struggle against Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. Nobody seriously accused them of dual loyalties. Why? Because they saw these twin evils as a common enemy of the United States as well, that's why. And so it is today in the ME. America and Israel have a common enemy that is called Islamofascism. Supporting Israel is not being disloyal to America. In fact the opposite obtains. Our government recognizes this fact and that's why we are the world's principle arms supplier to Israel. That's why their pilots are allowed to train with ours. That's why we have joint scientific and military ventures with them such as the Arrow missile system and others.

Those same people who would like to see America adopt a more "even-handed" policy towards the ME are the same ones who are secretly hoping for an American defeat in Iraq so that they can be proven "right."
Following your logic, why then did we oust Saddam Hussein, a mortal enemy of the "Islamofascists"? As far as your remark about us 'secretly hoping for America's defeat', if you said that to me in a bar, I'd punch your face.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #86 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 09:12 AM
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...... As far as your remark about us 'secretly hoping for America's defeat', if you said that to me in a bar, I'd punch your face.
If the shoe fits, wear it.

The last paragraph was directed at Jim specifically and was clearly intended as bait and he he obliged me by biting into it full force until it came out the other side of his lip. I had been silent about his little inneundoes of "unpatriotism" because of my support of Israel for quite some time now preferring, instead, to focus on the issues and not make this into an ad hominem exchange but he persisted in trying to provoke me. So instead of answering him directly and getting sidetracked on this peripheral issue I decided to give him a little taste of his own medicine. And he did not dissapoint. He mindlessly took the bait and responded by squealing like a stuck pig.

So let this serve as a lesson that two can play at this game just as well.

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post #87 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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The only shoe that is going to fit is mine kicking your ass.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #88 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 10:31 AM
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The only shoe that is going to fit is mine kicking your ass.
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if you said that to me in a bar, I'd punch your face.

Are you for real?
post #89 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 10:45 AM
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Are you for real?
He is. And so am I. Baseless smears and intentional misrepresentation (straw man arguments) get tiring. Realize there are sound arguments for opposing the current administation; if you continue with vilifying and polarizing Americans, there will be a reckoning.

OBK #35

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post #90 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 10:52 AM
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