U.S. Fascists running World-Wide Concentration Camp System - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 11:48 AM
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And your suggestion to fix that problem would be?????
it's called alliances and diplomacy, coupled with law enforcement. Myopia coupled with unilateralism and bully tactics does not qualify.

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post #72 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 12:13 PM
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it's called alliances and diplomacy, coupled with law enforcement. Myopia coupled with unilateralism and bully tactics does not qualify.
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are just willfully blind.

Have you been following events in Afganistan where the Taliban are making a comeback? After 5 years we still have not succeeded in supressing them. This is spite of the fact that in Afganistan we had world wide support for our actions, troops from many countries providing assistance and NATO support. This was nothing like a "unilateral" action. The U.N. helped put together a government there after the fall of the Taliban.

Now are you suggesting that the appropriate way to handle the Taliban and the terror training camps in Afganistan was through "law enforcement?"

How could people possibly be this stupid?
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post #73 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 12:28 PM
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The Taliban are a phenomena indigenous to the cultures of Pakistan and Afghanistan, while Al Qaeda (mostly Sunni Arabs) are simply opportunistic imports to the region. A police action is/was required to deal with the latter, while as to the former, we don't really have any reasonable or effective measures to deal with changing indigenous cultural norms. Using the military to alter cultural practices is counterproductive in the extreme. We never should've invaded Afghanistan, period.
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post #74 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 12:37 PM
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Sometimes I wonder if you guys are just willfully blind.

Have you been following events in Afganistan where the Taliban are making a comeback? After 5 years we still have not succeeded in supressing them. This is spite of the fact that in Afganistan we had world wide support for our actions, troops from many countries providing assistance and NATO support. This was nothing like a "unilateral" action. The U.N. helped put together a government there after the fall of the Taliban.

Now are you suggesting that the appropriate way to handle the Taliban and the terror training camps in Afganistan was through "law enforcement?"

How could people possibly be this stupid?
Your evidence doesn't support your assertions, but rather just the opposite. Your brand of myopic militarism is quite obviously NOT working.

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post #75 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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The Islamofascists brought the war to America on 9/11. Being a neutral and bemused spectator is no longer an option for us and, increasingly, it is no longer an option for Europe either, although it is taking them longer to awaken to this fact. Whatever you may think about the wisdom of going into Iraq in the first place, now that we are there, failure is not an option. We have to make it succeed.

We need strong national security to protect us from the threats within our own border because we know they do exist (Padilla, Walker, Gadahn etc.). We need to be able to wiretap communications from America to every muslim country. In wartime we can expect some limitations on civil liberties. What the governmnet has asked us to relinquish is miniscule and has no effect on the average law abiding citizen.

Images of this (from a public execution in Iran) trouble me far more than the Patriot Act:

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #76 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Sometimes I wonder if you guys are just willfully blind.

Have you been following events in Afganistan where the Taliban are making a comeback? After 5 years we still have not succeeded in supressing them. This is spite of the fact that in Afganistan we had world wide support for our actions, troops from many countries providing assistance and NATO support. This was nothing like a "unilateral" action. The U.N. helped put together a government there after the fall of the Taliban.

Now are you suggesting that the appropriate way to handle the Taliban and the terror training camps in Afganistan was through "law enforcement?"

How could people possibly be this stupid?
The proper way would have been to send the 150,000 troop we sent on a fool's errand to Iraq.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #77 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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The Taliban are a phenomena indigenous to the cultures of Pakistan and Afghanistan, while Al Qaeda (mostly Sunni Arabs) are simply opportunistic imports to the region. A police action is/was required to deal with the latter, while as to the former, we don't really have any reasonable or effective measures to deal with changing indigenous cultural norms. Using the military to alter cultural practices is counterproductive in the extreme. We never should've invaded Afghanistan, period.
I think a massive invasion of Afghanistan would have been warranted, but more for the purpose of destroying al Queda before it metastasized throughout the world, which apparently they now have. But this excreable "nation building" of phony democracies for the sake of filling the coffers of the corporations has been nothing short of treason.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #78 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by old300D
it's called alliances and diplomacy, coupled with law enforcement.
We tried that and it didn't work. When the Soviet Union baled out of Afganistan the Taliban took over, the UN and their neighbors tried to placate them and things got worse. What's your next best choice?

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
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post #79 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:28 PM
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But this excreable "nation building" of phony democracies for the sake of filling the coffers of the corporations has been nothing short of treason.
Let's for the sake of argument say that you are correct......
Tell me EXACTLY what you would have done differently. Tell us just what YOUR plan is and will be. Don't be shy, and don't try a lot of smoke and mirrors. I'm willing to be converted to your side. Give me GOOD, SOLID reasons why what YOU have in mind will work. DO NOT blame anyone else, just state what YOU want to see happen and tell me why it will work...........
All I have seen you do is complain how things are wrong, here's your chance to tell us all how you can fix them. C'mon, we're waiting................

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #80 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
We tried that and it didn't work. When the Soviet Union baled out of Afganistan the Taliban took over, the UN and their neighbors tried to placate them and things got worse. What's your next best choice?
I don't think you can give any credible evidence that we "tried that and it didn't work". Obviously these half measures Bush is doing now certainly DOESN'T work. We have two choices: either become terrorists, which will not reduce terrorism, or we set standards for behavior and operate by them, and back it up with a fair judicial system. It'd be interesting to see if you can demonstate we've ever done that in our middle east policies.

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