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post #41 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 03:30 PM
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deception
Don't hate the playa, hate the game.
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post #42 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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No. What I have said in the past is that the Bush administration was primed to accept, what is now known to be, faulty intelligence because the decision to invade Iraq had already been made on other grounds. They looked for the reason they felt was most compelling and ran with it at the time. All along they had multiple reasons to invade Iraq. They thought (correctly) that the American people and congress would support a war based upon the threat of WMDs.
So you think it's ok if the President sets forth a case for war that is false, with the purpose in doing so to fool the Congress into voting for the war, so he can then wage it for the "real" reasons?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #43 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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deception
I know. Can you fucking believe what we are hearing from this guy?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #44 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 03:40 PM
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So you think it's ok if the President sets forth a case for war that is false, with the purpose in doing so to fool the Congress into voting for the war, so he can then wage it for the "real" reasons?
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post #45 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 03:55 PM
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post #46 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 04:03 PM
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As I've said before WMDs were the pretext for going to war with Iraq. The real reasons were multifactorial including the desire to prevent future Iraqi ambitions against neighbor states (like Saddam had done twice before in the period of a decade), end his support of terrorism in the ME by stopping the funding of suicide bombers, provide some measure of justice to the Kurds who his father had, at first encouraged ,and then abadndoned to Saddam's agression after the first Gulf War etc. etc.

As far as Abu-Graib is concerned I'm not proud of what happened there but humilation hardly compares to the torture that went on in that prison when Saddam was in power and the perpetrators are being punished.
I'm glad we agree the war started under a "pretext". Torture and death at the hands of US personnel at abu-Graib certainly does compare to what Sadaam did. Both violations of human rights.

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post #47 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 04:23 PM
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I'm glad we agree the war started under a "pretext". Torture and death at the hands of US personnel at abu-Graib certainly does compare to what Sadaam did. Both violations of human rights.
Boo boo thinks its ok though, he gets dumber by the post.
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post #48 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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He's done a wonderful job of making The Left's case that the war is illegal.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #49 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 04:33 PM
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So you think it's ok if the President sets forth a case for war that is false, with the purpose in doing so to fool the Congress into voting for the war, so he can then wage it for the "real" reasons?
No.

I think that both Bush and Blair accepted the faulty intelligence uncritically. They believed that Saddam had WMDs. That is what they believed and that is what they told the American people. No deception at all.
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post #50 of 106 (permalink) Old 09-19-2006, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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And your logic comes full circle:

pretext 

–noun 1. something that is put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; an ostensible reason; excuse: The leaders used the insults as a pretext to declare war.
2. the misleading appearance or behavior assumed with this intention: His many lavish compliments were a pretext for subtle mockery.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1505–15; < L praetextum pretext, ornament, n. use of neut. ptp. of praetexere to pretend, lit., to weave in front, hence, adorn. See pre-, texture]


—Synonyms 2. subterfuge, evasion.


Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 09-19-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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