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post #51 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-14-2006, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Bullsh*t! You go to war when you think that is the only option.

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That is as poignant a condemnation of the invasion of Iraq as I have heard.

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post #52 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Bullsh*t! You go to war when you think that is the only option.

There is never, ever, in all reality known to man, ironclad evidence of anything. There is never anything more than an accumulation of evidence. Each of us has different thresholds of believability. In a culture of great fidelity folks have great conformity in their consensual reality. As a culture becomes increasingly pluralistic the consensual reality becomes less confined.

What you or I may see as lack of compelling evidence or evidence of overwhelming persuasive force is a product of our own beliefs. There is no objective reality, only one which we perceive and agree upon--give our consent, a consensual reality.

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So you honestly believe that the administration thought war was the only option in Iraq?. Hell, we didn't even let the inspectors do their job. We didn't get UN approval, we bypassed every bit of evidence that showed there were no WMD's in Iraq and then used known faulty intelligence to show there was. You dont think the administration knew 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq?. They seized the opportunity that was 9/11 and twisted it around and used fear tactics to somehow show that 9/11 was indeed corollated with Iraq/Sadam and that if we didn't do something quick Iraq was gonna blow us up. Instilling fear into the masses has done wonders for this administration and pretty much let them get away with murder, literally. They did it countless times and are doing it again with Iran as we speak.
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post #53 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 01:54 PM
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Oooooohhh. This looks like fun. I like to play this game. A list with numbers and everything. It makes the original post SO much easier a target. Looks like the Weepublicans are looking at those 33% poll numbers again and trying to see if there is some way, SOME WAY to make little SHRUB look better. Fat Fn Chance.

Let's Play the Game.

1)You forgot to mention W's hot little number Tammy Phillips or Jeb's Cynthia Henderson. What about Newt's Bisek. Those lovely ladies deserve being introduced also.

2)I am guessing that if your eight year old understood oral sex from watching the news, it was due to poor parental monitoring not the president.

3)You might check with Sen John Tower about that one. Or Newt Gingrich, or…

4)Karma is an interesting concept

5)And W look like the cretinous moron he really is.

6)Don’t forget Delay and Kidan and Boulis and Abramoff and Buckham and the Heritage Foundation that is also under investigation. I could really continue that list for a good bit of time.

7)Can’t argue with some of the peripheral scandals

8)Note that the Base Closure Act [of which I did consultant work] started in 1988

9)And note that as a result of that ‘globe-trotting’ the world had one of its most peaceful 8 years in the last century.

10)Every president and governor does this, not just Clinton. Only pissy one is Marc Rich.

11)Are you sure about that one? Also, EVERY president gets truckloads of housewarming presents. Weak to link that kind of thing…kinda like Clinton breathed and took up oxygen.

12)I believe that, with the exception of the W’s taken off typewriters and computers [a $250 loss] was the same thing that the Bush 1 staff did to Clinton and Reagan did to Bush 1 and Carter did to Reagan and Ford did to Carter [NOTICE A PATTERN]

13)What about the advances that Ford got, or Carter or Reagan or Bush 1 [Damn another PATTERN]. If people want to read the thoughts of someone and a publisher wants to make money publishing it, exactly what is wrong with that? Did Limbaugh get a advance? O’Really?, Scott McClellen? Ari Fleischer? Colin Powell?

14)World political negotiations always have positive and negative repercussions. How do we know that a positive repercussion did not also occur from that same agreement? Why did we buy gasoline from Arab countries and then they turn around and fund terrorists?

As for the Chappaqua residence, EVERY president has Secret Service protection and Federal costs associated with it. W will in two short years. GHWB does at two residences, Reagan did, as does his widow. Carter does, Ford does [NOTE THE PATTERN AGAIN].

Posting the original “letter from a U.S. Citizen” was just about the most useless tripe. It covered no new ground. It tried in the weakest form to present an argument of how Clinton was somehow worse than either his predecessors or the current president.

In reality what the note showed was that if that is all that Clinton had going against him when compared to Bush, Clinton is even better than most give him credit for. He could even be a Rhodes Scholar. Oops sorry I forgot – he is. W was a C student. I have never thought to put that together - WC. Jack Paar would understand.

McBear,
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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.

Last edited by mcbear; 09-15-2006 at 01:57 PM.
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post #54 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140
So you honestly believe that the administration thought war was the only option in Iraq?...
Obviously that was their belief else they wouldn't have done it. It was also the belief of Congress or they wouldn't have passed an overwhelmingly bipartisan resolution in favor of it.

It's true most of whom later voted against it. And then for it. And against it. Etc. More vacillations than a stuck vibrator.

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post #55 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
I didn't say the "evidence was fabricated." What I did say was that there was faulty intelligence that the administration was inclined to believe because it had already made up its mind to go to war. I do believe that to be the case. I also believe that the world is better off without Saddam Hussien in power. I have also stated that the war is not over yet and that the left should not be celebrating America's defeat. I think that the conflict with Islamic terror is one that will span decades.
'Faulty Intelligence' is a motherfucking, piece of shit, lower down than a whale's cock fucking lie.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #56 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Oooooohhh. This looks like fun. I like to play this game. A list with numbers and everything. It makes the original post SO much easier a target. Looks like the Weepublicans are looking at those 33% poll numbers again and trying to see if there is some way, SOME WAY to make little SHRUB look better. Fat Fn Chance.

Let's Play the Game. Yes please, let's........

1)You forgot to mention W's hot little number Tammy Phillips or Jeb's Cynthia Henderson. What about Newt's Bisek. Those lovely ladies deserve being introduced also.
If the Tammy Phillips story could hold water, we would still be hearing about it, we're NOT, so I guess it don't. Jeb and Newt are not, and have not been President of the United States, who really gives a damn?

2)I am guessing that if your eight year old understood oral sex from watching the news, it was due to poor parental monitoring not the president.
Have you tried to pry an 8 year old away from the tube lately? How do you cover their ears when you're not around, how do you monitor what they hear at school? Parental monitoring my polished ex military butt......

3)You might check with Sen John Tower about that one. Or Newt Gingrich, or…
Or any number of dems including their Patron Saint JFK.

4)Karma is an interesting concept

5)And W look like the cretinous moron he really is.
I keep hearing about what a moron W is, yet I'd be willing to bet that he could score better on an IQ test then most if not all those who have slammed him here.

6)Don’t forget Delay and Kidan and Boulis and Abramoff and Buckham and the Heritage Foundation that is also under investigation. I could really continue that list for a good bit of time.
Probably so, and you would end up with a bunch of Dems in the pile as well. There isn't a totally honest one in the bunch on either side.

7)Can’t argue with some of the peripheral scandals

8)Note that the Base Closure Act [of which I did consultant work] started in 1988
Note that Clinton did less for the military then even Carter. The losses in the ranks were higher then at any other time in recent history. "Our" guys felt unappreciated, only because they were unappreciated.

9)And note that as a result of that ‘globe-trotting’ the world had one of its most peaceful 8 years in the last century.
You're probably right if you don't count the first Trade Tower bombing, the Cole Incident, the fiasco in Somalia, and half a dozen other things he dropped the ball on. I could really continue that list for a good bit of time as well.

10)Every president and governor does this, not just Clinton. Only pissy one is Marc Rich.
I can't argue that, but they don't generally do it in the very last few days in office. You know before the media can get wind and publish the trash this guy cut loose.

11)Are you sure about that one? Also, EVERY president gets truckloads of housewarming presents. Weak to link that kind of thing…kinda like Clinton breathed and took up oxygen.
Presidential "gifts" are generally put away in storage. Most don't want the "appearance" of an impropriety. Clearly with Clinton's rep. it didn't matter and he knew it. As a side note are you aware that the Clintons NEVER owned their own home? The were always given Government supplied housing up until they left the White House.

12)I believe that, with the exception of the W’s taken off typewriters and computers [a $250 loss] was the same thing that the Bush 1 staff did to Clinton and Reagan did to Bush 1 and Carter did to Reagan and Ford did to Carter
[NOTICE A PATTERN]
I believe you're wrong, at the very beginning the press reported otherwise. Only unproved rumors have come up with that little tidbit.

13)What about the advances that Ford got, or Carter or Reagan or Bush 1 [Damn another PATTERN]. If people want to read the thoughts of someone and a publisher wants to make money publishing it, exactly what is wrong with that?
Did Limbaugh get a advance? O’Really?, Scott McClellen? Ari Fleischer? Colin Powell?
The deal was made BEFORE they left the White House, NEVER been done before by anyone, think greed had something to do with it, or the fact that they bought a house they couldn't afford?

14)World political negotiations always have positive and negative repercussions. How do we know that a positive repercussion did not also occur from that same agreement? Why did we buy gasoline from Arab countries and then they
turn around and fund terrorists?
True, but the Israelis didn't want to cut him loose, and it cost us 3,000 lives right off the bat, and lead to a war many here think is W's fault. What pray tell was the positive repercussion?

As for the Chappaqua residence, EVERY president has Secret Service protection and Federal costs associated with it. W will in two short years. GHWB does at two residences, Reagan did, as does his widow. Carter does, Ford does
[NOTE THE PATTERN AGAIN].
Again true, but they bought in a state they had no intention of living in, they bought a house they could NOT afford at the time (except of course if you tie in the money Hillary got for the book she hadn't started yet). [NOTE THE PATTERN AGAIN]

Posting the original “letter from a U.S. Citizen” was just about the most useless tripe. It covered no new ground. It tried in the weakest form to present an argument of how Clinton was somehow worse than either his predecessors or the current president.
No more useless then much of the other stuff posted here, so what's your point? As to being a weak form of argument, you seemed to feel the need to answer it, so I guess it wasn't too weak was it?
Clinton being better or worst then the sitting prez or any other Prez is always open to debate, and that is all we're doing here.
In reality what the note showed was that if that is all that Clinton had going against him when compared to Bush, Clinton is even better than most give him credit for. He could even be a Rhodes Scholar. Oops sorry I forgot – he is. W was a C student. I have never thought to put that together - WC. Jack Paar would understand.
"Clinton is even better than most give him credit for." That is a matter of debate. He, as I said, dropped the ball too many times to be called a great President. Both he and Carter have second guessed Mr. Bush in public, and that is totally unprecedented in our recent history (Since FDR) solely in an attempt to undermine his authority and gain some relevance for their pathetic Democrat Party. The both of them should be ashamed of themselves, but that will never happen.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #57 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
It's true most of whom later voted against it. And then for it. And against it. Etc. More vacillations than a stuck vibrator.
Bot
True, but not as much fun............

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #58 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 06:15 PM
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Obviously that was their belief else they wouldn't have done it.
if you believe that..........................
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post #59 of 59 (permalink) Old 09-15-2006, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DestroyerW140
if you believe that..........................
Arguing by innuendo is cheap. I hope you have more than that in your toolbox.

Of course I believe the Administration's reason (though I hasten to add that their reason is NOT my reason), it is what they said and there is plenty of evidence, including testimony before the UN and Congress and votes of the Congress of the United States, in support of it. (and against it, and for it, and against it...bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....).

On the other side we have the conspiracy theorists: a weird collection of political opportunists, senile politicians, a few honest people and a multitude of easily influenced dolts.

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