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post #81 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-07-2006, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Stay out of their affairs, don't install/support the Shah and see where history leads -- there is a real possibility it would have eventually led to us. A majority of Iranians are quite comfortable with the West, which makes them a natural ally, despite the religious zealots who now hold the reins, partly as a result of our unwelcome and inappropriate interference.


Democracy is forged from within. Your optimism suggests to me an indefinite occupation.

Who installed the shah?


Do you have evidence that we are forcing democracy on the Iraqi people?

Are you aware that the new Iraqi govt took command of military operations in Iraq?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060907/D8K00E180.html

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Last edited by azimuth; 09-07-2006 at 11:06 PM.
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post #82 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-07-2006, 11:06 PM
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I don't know if we are "imposing" it on them - but the fact that 90% of them voted for religious extremist parties seems to be some kind of hint that they don't care if it last for long.

The military operations thing sounds silly. Do you think they are going to go on war game manauvers without calling us first and asking us if we could move our 150,000 occupation troops out of the way?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #83 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-07-2006, 11:09 PM
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No, but govt entities using the power of govt. to coerce the editing of free speech is the prime definition of censorship; a concept antithetical to the original intent of the constitutional 1st amendment.........and you know it.
I think the letter was in bounds.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #84 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by azimuth
Who installed the shah?


Do you have evidence that we are forcing democracy on the Iraqi people?

Are you aware that the new Iraqi govt took command of military operations in Iraq?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060907/D8K00E180.html
It all started with the French.

...
...
...
...

They installed George Washington as President thus getting the ball rolling.

Damn you French.
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post #85 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 06:29 AM
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What escapes me is where the "threat" is. I saw none in their letter. The broadcast license allusion simply mentioned their duties as licensees.

People demand retractions of inaccuracies all the time. How is doing so "prior restraint"? And censorship? Where? They have no power to censor anyone.
When you and I demand a retraction or when we demand that a station pull out a program or a studio edit a film it means squat. We have no power over the station or the studio.

When the government, or when members of the government make threats, however veiled they may be, it carries quite a different impact.


A reference to "duties as a licensee" is coda for: "you do what we tell you or we yank your license." Anyone who doesn't see it that way is being extremely naive.

I think that government censorhip, prior restrains and even veiled threats of potential "consequences" is wrong and just plain odious.

Even you would have to agree with that premise. And you should be candid enough to see the same standards applied to Dems and Reps and you should be willing to using the same yardstick to measure the actions of both parties. Anything less than that is just plain hypocrisy.

It is stupid for the Dems to get all worked up over this TV movie.

1. It makes them look petty, scared and plain silly;

2. It goes against their self-professed devotion to the 1st Am.; AND

3. IT IS JUST A MOVIE...JUST A MOVIE...JUST A MOVIE

Politicians, from both side of the aisle, need to show a little bit more faith in the American public. We are not children, we can figure it out.

BTW and just to deflect any potential retort...I would be ridiculing the Reps if they were doing the same thing.

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post #86 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 07:15 AM
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Why aren't the Repos out there whining about this thing? And what about Bin Laden, are he and his political party fairly portrayed?

Inquiring minds want to know.

B
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post #87 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I don't know if we are "imposing" it on them - but the fact that 90% of them voted for religious extremist parties seems to be some kind of hint that they don't care if it last for long.

The military operations thing sounds silly. Do you think they are going to go on war game manauvers without calling us first and asking us if we could move our 150,000 occupation troops out of the way?
I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all of the candidates from which to choose, were religious extremists comparatively speaking. How many of our politicians in our nascent democracy were extremely religious as compared to today's standard?

I think installing democracy is like planting seeds......it all depends upon the quality of soil and the diligence of nurturing for it to become a mighty oak, a noxious weed or fodder for hungry oppressors.

As far as the military operations, well, have you ever seen a baby deer or the like try to walk an hour after birth?

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post #88 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:30 AM
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I think the letter was in bounds.
And I expected no less. We all view the same events from differing perspectives through various filters........that's why I enjoy these conversations. One day either I'll become a libbie or I'll convert you to the warm embrace of neoconism

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post #89 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by azimuth
I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all of the candidates from which to choose, were religious extremists comparatively speaking. How many of our politicians in our nascent democracy were extremely religious as compared to today's standard?

I think installing democracy is like planting seeds......it all depends upon the quality of soil and the diligence of nurturing for it to become a mighty oak, a noxious weed or fodder for hungry oppressors.

As far as the military operations, well, have you ever seen a baby deer or the like try to walk an hour after birth?
And I will bet you a steak or ten, that there will never be an actual independent democracy in Iraq. The whole idea is a joke perpetrated upon the American voters by a dishonest administration. Democracy is forged from within, it is not thrust upon unwilling participants from without.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #90 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 08:40 AM
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And I will bet you a steak or ten, that there will never be an actual independent democracy in Iraq. The whole idea is a joke perpetrated upon the American voters by a dishonest administration. Democracy is forged from within, it is not thrust upon unwilling participants from without.
Which brings us full circle in which ways did we force democracy on the Iraqi people?


ANd what's with making a steak bet that can't be won?......I'd have to wait 'til 'never' is over to claim my prize......

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