Originally Posted by JimSmith
No, my objection is that you seem to suggest, with a pretty threadbare hypothesis, that somehow Vietnam would be better off today had we not left. I see no evidence from your posts on the subject, or anywhere else, or from people I know who have been there recently, that would support your hypothesis. My "if" statements were actually based on more facts than yours - had we stayed more people would have died at our hands, and from our country, than did. The question that remains is how to determine whether that number would have been more or less than died in the subsequent conflicts, anyway. I don't suggest that is worth arguing about since no one can know. I just don't believe we had any business being there and when we left our supposed reason for being there, the Domino Theory, never materialized and there were no global threats that arose from Vietnamese communism to America.
How many civilians were murdered by the regime which assumed power in our vacuum? compare that number to how many civilians we killed. There's my proof. This is a concrete number. It should make you feel more comfortable about my thread count.
For hypothetical postulates I look to examples for understanding. Perhaps if we consider Japan's path since our occupation after WWII, we can project that image onto what Vietnam could have been had we stayed and actually moved effectively without the liberal PC flaccidity.
I don't know if we should have gone there or not. I was not present during white house security council meetings. I can say that as a principle, if we go, we go big and ominously. We overwhelm quickly and maintain control with iron will. Otherwise, we don't go.
I believe that communism, as practiced by the players in that era, was doomed to collapse of it's own corrupt weight. As an ideal, it was antithetical to our social model of freedom /responsibility enhancing capitalism and was voraciously consuming other social models leaving enslaved populations in it's wake. Those in power in the US at the time recognized that the spread of communism was a threat to our way of life and opted to combat it where they could; Vietnam was one of those places. Had our leaders a crystal ball, they could have seen into the future and watched the collapse of the soviet union as a communist collective. Perhaps they would have been satisfied that there was no communist threat and not felt the need to go into Vietnam. They were not so equipped.
Some folks are bothered by the spread of freedom limiting communism, others are not. Therein lies the conflict between you and me. Sorry you are disappointed.