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post #141 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Seriously, though, this letter from the Democratic house leadership is simply the most brazen attack on first amendment protections in recent memory. Any liberal who is not chilled by congress' attempt to limit free speech is a hypocrite.

The complaints about the Reagan miniseries are not totally comparable. Although conservatives were outraged and CBS eventually pulled it from broadcast television it was eventually shown on cable television (Showtime).

At the time, Senator Tom Daschle commented that the decision "smells of intimidation to me.".

Words that seem very appropriate in describing the current controversy.
I read the letter, and as usual GOP spin and lies are totally distorting it. It was well within the bounds of simple protest, and threatened nobody. Republicans, on the other hand, egged on by Talk Radio Fascists, threatened a massive boycott over the Reagan movie, censorship if there ever was.

http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/CBS-Reagan-01.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102110,00.html

....

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #142 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 10:15 PM
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The degree to which this or that portrayal is a distortion or merely an adjustment for aesthetic reasons is again, a reflection of our own beliefs.

If ABC had done a perfectly faithful retelling of the 9/11 Report, the 3 people in Polson, Montana who only get ABC would be the only people bored enough to watch the whole thing.

The Report is NOT a page-turner. It reads like a reasonable analysis of documented, factual events. Coincidentally, that's what it was supposed to be. It is not a document of high drama, loose women and fast cars.

So to bring something that everybody loves into the story (sex), where could they look? Hmmmmm..... Oh Bill......???

B
Agreed, but in this case a number of living persons have complained that words have been put into their mouths that they never said, to convey something they never conveyed. There is a borderline to libel here. If I write a play, and have your character, based on you and named you, making a moving soliquey in support of NAMBLA while you recount adulterous adventures with strippers and hookers that your wife can review, you have a right to sue me if it is all falsehood. There is no "1st Amendment" or "censorship" here, it is simple vicious libel. If you get an advanced copy, you have a right to threaten to sue, in the hopes I will get good advice from a lawyer and drop the slander. In the latter case, you would actually being doing me a favor (or as a strategy by me to frighten you into not printing the truth). So far this seems to be what the Democrats affected have been doing.

Having not seen the movie, I can't judge whether the slander line has been crossed, but this is the same complaint Nancy Reagan had, concerning supposed false utterances attributed to Ronny about gays. Has I noted above her supporters went way beyond writing rude letters in their successful work to censor the movie.

....

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #143 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I read the letter, and as usual GOP spin and lies are totally distorting it. It was well within the bounds of simple protest, and threatened nobody. Republicans, on the other hand, egged on by Talk Radio Fascists, threatened a massive boycott over the Reagan movie, censorship if there ever was.
And yet the Reagan movie was shown virtually unedited except for one line.

Not that I'm defending those who objected to Reagan's portrayal . I thought that it was silly at the time.

If you want to know the truth I happen to think that Reagan dropped the ball on AIDS because he saw it as a "gay" disease (as it largely was in the beginning). Only after heterosexuals began getting it through blood transfusions and sexual intercourse did he act -- but too late.

So that characterization in the movie where is seen telling his wife "They that live in sin shall die in sin." is probably an accurate portrayal of his feelings even though he never actually said those words (or so it is claimed).

Many years ago I read the book And the band Played On about the early years of the AIDS epidemic and it left me full of anger at the apathy and ineptitude of our government leaders (including Reagan) who missed an opportunity to limit the spread of this disease. We have been and will continue to pay a very high price for that miscalculation.
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post #144 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 10:49 PM
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Incidentally, who was chosen to play Reagan in that movie? Well James Brolin was, the husband of that well known liberal acitivist (who should take Laura Ingraham's advice and "just shut up and sing") Barbara Streisand .

That would be like having Newt Gingrich play Clinton in the 9/11 movie.
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post #145 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I read the letter, and as usual GOP spin and lies are totally distorting it. It was well within the bounds of simple protest, and threatened nobody. Republicans, on the other hand, egged on by Talk Radio Fascists, threatened a massive boycott over the Reagan movie, censorship if there ever was.

....
When ordinary citizens write to the studio to protest it is NOT censorship.

When elected government officials make not-so-veiled references to a licensee's "obligations" that IS censorship.

it is wrong.

It is illegal.

It is odious.

And you should be opposed to censorship.

That, however, would be to expect too much from you.
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post #146 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Agreed, but in this case a number of living persons have complained that words have been put into their mouths that they never said, to convey something they never conveyed. There is a borderline to libel here. If I write a play, and have your character, based on you and named you, making a moving soliquey in support of NAMBLA while you recount adulterous adventures with strippers and hookers that your wife can review, you have a right to sue me if it is all falsehood.
Then let them sue and let a judge and jury decide.

I don't think the clintonites have the balls to get into a courtroom, where they can't control the action, and have their actions exposed for the whole nation to judge.

BTW, your knowledge of libel law is limited and inaccurate. You have managed to confuse a number of legal concepts.

You've also glossed over the concept of "public figure" vs. "private figure" and the rights of each one od those discreet groups.
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post #147 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 67_250SE
When ordinary citizens write to the studio to protest it is NOT censorship.

When elected government officials make not-so-veiled references to a licensee's "obligations" that IS censorship.

it is wrong.

It is illegal.

It is odious.

And you should be opposed to censorship.

That, however, would be to expect too much from you.
I saw no threats. Please post it.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #148 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 09:37 AM
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The truth is now starting to come out. Film is financed by Swift Boat smear king Scaife:

Discover the Secret Right-Wing Network Behind ABC's 9/11 Deception
Max Blumenthal
www.salon.com


Less than 72 hours before ABC's "The Path to 9/11" is scheduled to air, the network is suddenly under siege. On Tuesday, ABC was forced to concede that "The Path to 9/11" is "a dramatization, not a documentary." The film deceptively invents scenes to depict former President Bill Clinton's handling of the Al Qaeda threat.

Now, ABC claims to be is editing those false sequences to satisfy critics so the show can go on -- even if it still remains a gross distortion of history. And as it does so, ABC advances the illusion that the deceptive nature of "The Path to 9/11" is an honest mistake committed by a hardworking but admittedly fumbling team of well-intentioned Hollywood professionals who wanted nothing less than to entertain America. But this is another Big Lie.

In fact, "The Path to 9/11" is produced and promoted by a well-honed propaganda operation consisting of a network of little-known right-wingers working from within Hollywood to counter its supposedly liberal bias. This is the network within the ABC network. Its godfather is far right activist David Horowitz, who has worked for more than a decade to establish a right-wing presence in Hollywood and to discredit mainstream film and TV production. On this project, he is working with a secretive evangelical religious right group founded by The Path to 9/11's director David Cunningham that proclaims its goal to "transform Hollywood" in line with its messianic vision.

Before The Path to 9/11 entered the production stage, Disney/ABC contracted David Cunningham as the film's director. Cunningham is no ordinary Hollywood journeyman. He is in fact the son of Loren Cunningham, founder of the right-wing evangelical group Youth With A Mission (YWAM). The young Cunningham helped found an auxiliary of his father's group called The Film Institute (TFI), which, according to its mission statement, is "dedicated to a Godly transformation and revolution TO and THROUGH the Film and Televisionindustry." As part of TFI's long-term strategy, Cunningham helped place interns from Youth With A Mission's in film industry jobs "so that they can begin to impact and transform Hollywood from the inside out," according to a YWAM report.

Last June, Cunningham's TFI announced it was producing its first film, mysteriously titled "Untitled History Project." "TFI's first project is a doozy," a newsletter to YWAM members read. "Simply being referred to as: The Untitled History Project, it is already being called the television event of the decade and not one second has been put to film yet. Talk about great expectations!" (A web edition of the newsletter was mysteriously deleted yesterday but has been cached on Google at the link above).

The following month, on July 28, the New York Post reported that ABC was filming a mini-series "under a shroud of secrecy" about the 9/11 attacks. "At the moment, ABC officials are calling the miniseries 'Untitled Commission Report' and producers refer to it as the 'Untitled History Project,'" the Post noted.

Early on, Cunningham had recruited a young Iranian-American screenwriter named Cyrus Nowrasteh to
write the script of his secretive "Untitled" film. Not only is Nowrasteh an outspoken conservative, he is also a fervent member of the emerging network of right-wing people burrowing into the film industry with ulterior sectarian political and religious agendas, like Cunningham.

Nowrasteh's conservatism was on display when he appeared as a featured speaker at the Liberty Film Festival (LFF), an annual event founded in 2004 to premier and promote conservative-themed films supposedly too "politically incorrect" to gain acceptance at mainstream film festivals. This June, while The Path to 9/11 was being filmed, LFF founders Govindini Murty and Jason Apuzzo -- both friends of Nowrasteh -- announced they were "partnering" with right-wing activist David Horowitz. Indeed, the 2006 LFF is listed as "A Program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center."

Since the inauguration of Bill Clinton in 1992, Horowitz has labored to create a network of politically active conservatives in Hollywood. His Hollywood nest centers around his Wednesday Morning Club, a
weekly meet-and-greet session for Left Coast conservatives that has been graced with speeches by
the likes of Newt Gingrich, Victor Davis Hanson and Christopher Hitchens. The group's headquarters are at the offices of Horowitz's Center for the Study of Popular Culture, a "think tank" bankrolled for years with millions by right-wing sugardaddies like eccentric far right billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife. (Scaife
financed the Arkansas Project, a $2.3 million dirty tricks operation that included paying sources for
negative stories about Bill Clinton that turned out to be false.)

With the LFF now under Horowitz's control, his political machine began drumming up support for Cunningham and Nowrasteh's "Untitled" project, which finally was revealed in late summer as "The Path to 9/11." Horowitz's PR blitz began with an August 16 interview with Nowrasteh on his FrontPageMag webzine. In the interview, Nowrasteh foreshadowed the film's assault on Clinton's record on fighting terror. "The 9/11 report details the Clinton's administration's response -- or lack of response -- to Al Qaeda and how this emboldened Bin Laden to keep attacking American interests," Nowrasteh told FrontPageMag's Jamie Glazov. "There simply was no response. Nothing."

A week later, ABC hosted LFF co-founder Murty and several other conservative operatives at an advance
screening of The Path to 9/11. (While ABC provided 900 DVDs of the film to conservatives, Clinton administration officials and objective reviewers from mainstream outlets were denied them.) Murty returned with a glowing review for FrontPageMag that emphasized the film's partisan nature. "'The Path to 9/11' is one of the best, most intelligent, most pro-American miniseries I've ever seen on TV, and conservatives should support
it and promote it as vigorously as possible," Murty wrote. As a result of the special access granted by ABC, Murty's article was the first published review of The Path to 9/11, preceding those by the New York Times and LA Times by more than a week.

Murty followed her review with a blast email to conservative websites such as Liberty Post and Free Republic on September 1 urging their readers to throw their weight behind ABC's mini-series. "Please do everything you can to spread the word about this excellent miniseries," Murty wrote, "so that 'The Path to 9/11' gets the highest ratings possible when it airs on September 10 & 11! If this show gets huge ratings, then ABC will be more likely to produce pro-American movies and TV shows in the future!"

Murty's efforts were supported by Appuzo, who handles LFF's heavily-trafficked blog, Libertas. Appuzo was instrumental in marketing The Path to 9/11 to conservatives, writing in a blog post on September 2, "Make no mistake about what this film does, among other things: it places the question of the Clinton Administration's culpability for the 9/11 attacks front and center... Bravo to Cyrus Nowrasteh and David
Cunningham for creating this gritty, stylish and gripping piece of entertainment."

When a group of leading Senate Democrats sent a letter to ABC CEO Robert Iger urging him to cancel The Path to 9/11 because of its glaring factual errors and distortions, Apuzzo launched a retaliatory campaign to paint the Democrats as foes of free speech. "Here at LIBERTAS we urge the public to make noise over this, and to demand that Democrats back down," he wrote on September 7th. "What is at stake is nothing short of the 1st Amendment."

At FrontPageMag, Horowitz singled out Nowrasteh as the victim. "The attacks by former president Bill Clinton, former Clinton Administration officials and Democratic US senators on Cyrus Nowrasteh's ABC
mini-series "The Path to 9/11" are easily the gravest and most brazen and damaging governmental attacks on the civil liberties of ordinary Americans since 9/11," Horowitz declared.

Now, as discussion grows over the false character of The Path to 9/11, the right-wing network that brought it to fruition is ratcheting up its PR efforts. Murty will appear tonight on CNN's Glenn Beck
show and The Situation Room, according to Libertas in order to respond to "the major disinformation campaign now being run by Democrats to block the truth about what actually happened during the Clinton years."

While this network claims its success and postures as the true victims, the ABC network suffers a PR catastrophe. It's almost as though it was complacent about an attack on its reputation by a band of political terrorists.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #149 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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(Thread Starter)
Max Blumenthal
www.salon.com

Now there's an objective combination! Are you kidding??

Don't believe everything you think
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post #150 of 224 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 10:32 AM
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Az,

Please explain the way you see a bad consequence from America leaving Vietnam when we did, vs. some extended version of the war that maintained some continued split of Vietnam into North and South, and what you project that condition would have wrought on the Vietnamese people that would be better than what actually transpired.
Okay, I'm back but the thread has moved on, so this may seem incongruent now.

I'll answer your question with a question. How many people were murdered by the regime that seized power in the vacuum our retreat created?

The vietnam war needn't have been extended. If we had actually fought to our capacity and not limited ourselves to some PC concept of a gentleman's action, we could have crushed the communists. The death and destruction, while sudden and severe, would ultimately have saved more lives. History has proved this to work.

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