Comair flight had lots of odd things - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Easy Professor, you know as well as I do that he's right. They don't call them "Bent Tail Doctor Killers" for nothing..... They were great planes, but you had to stay ahead of them............
Hey Bruce ever land your bird at College Park? Maybe a little get together and a burger next doo one day, what do you say?
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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Wow you know about aviation too, I am very impressed. ....
Yes I do.

I took flying lessons (Cessna 172) several years ago but stopped because of a family emergency and never went back. I enjoyed it a great deal. I flew out of a fairly busy airport with 5000 foot runways so we shared the facilities with corporate jets.

I nearly memorized the FAR/AIM handbook, bought my own noise canceling headset, had all the aeronautical maps. Finally learned to land the damn thing (most fun and most challenging for me). And I was researching, at the time, purchasing a plane. I looked into the Cessna 172 series, The Cirrus and Diamondair.

I still remember some "pilotspeak": talking to ground and air traffic control to get clearances.

My scariest moment was when I was practicing power off stalls at about 3500 feet and did an improper recovery by failing to apply right rudder as I pushed in the throttle. The left wing dropped and I sent the plane into a spin. Unfortunately for you my instructor performed, what was an easy recovery, (although you don't want spin practice at this height) and I'm still here today to torment you........

Last edited by baby boo; 08-31-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Yes I do.

I took flying lessons (Cessna 172) several years ago but stopped because of a family emergency and never went back. I enjoyed it a great deal. I flew out of a fairly busy airport with 5000 foot runways so we shared the facilities with corporate jets.

I nearly memorized the FAR/AIM handbook, bought my own noise canceling headset, had all the aeronautical maps. Finally learned to land the damn thing (most fun and most challenging for me). And I was researching, at the time, purchasing a plane. I looked into the Cessna 172 series, The Cirrus and Diamondair.

I still remember some "pilotspeak": talking to ground and air traffic control to get clearances.

My scariest moment was when I was practicing power off stalls at about 3500 feet and did an improper recovery by failing to apply right rudder as I pushed in the throttle. The left wing dropped and I sent the plane into a spin. Unfortunatley for you my instructor performed, what was an easy recovery, (although you don't want spin practice at this height) and I'm still here today to torment you........
I take back what I said but tormenting me, hardly!
Boo if your constant accusations of me as an apologist or lefty were instead about real issues then maybe I would respond to you without being abrasive. It's simple we have opposing views on many issues but it does not have to degrade to nonsense. You need to stop the name-calling and I need to the same but in no way should one stifle the other from expressing his own opinion.
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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Curacao
A few hours ago CNN reported that the Air Traffic Controller who was directing the Comair to the runnway did not have ebough sleep. He worked a 15 hour shift sleep for two hours and go back for a 8 hour shift at night. This guy is a veteran air traffic controller.

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I suspect that even veterans get tired.

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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
Hey Bruce ever land your bird at College Park? Maybe a little get together and a burger next doo one day, what do you say?
I went in there a couple of times, but that was as I said a while ago... "Broom Hilda" was sold and destroyed about three years ago now, damn I miss that plane... Spring Valley was the nasty little field that I learned and flew out of for many years. It was 2200 feet long, about 30 feet wide, and had a hill in the middle so you couldn't see one end from the other.. there was almost always a 90 degree crosswind.... Damn I loved that place...
Collage Park is a piece of cake!
We have the occasional GTG down here in Rockville c'mon down and join us we can get a burger at Ruby Tuesday's.

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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
I went in there a couple of times, but that was as I said a while ago... "Broom Hilda" was sold and destroyed about three years ago now, damn I miss that plane... Spring Valley was the nasty little field that I learned and flew out of for many years. It was 2200 feet long, about 30 feet wide, and had a hill in the middle so you couldn't see one end from the other.. there was almost always a 90 degree crosswind.... Damn I loved that place...
Collage Park is a piece of cake!
We have the occasional GTG down here in Rockville c'mon down and join us we can get a burger at Ruby Tuesday's.
Sounds good! My bro is coming back from Iraq after his third or fourth duty as a Marines (I lost count) we will pull our bird out of mothballs maybe this fall. Stay in touch so we can coordinate something.
Drew
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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JFlyer
IIRC the captain, since he was not flying that leg, should be watching the air speed indicator and calling out V speeds to the first officer who presumably would be looking out the windscreen. Once they passed V1 (the speed at which the a/c can be stopped safely, he would be watching for V2 (rotation speed). I'm guessing that the f/o probably saw the end of 28 coming up quickly before he got to V2, but after V1, so he had no choice but to try to get it up. Hence the pull up partially cleared the fence before settling into the trees.
McBear, my thanks for all the additional information. I didn't realize you lived that close to the airport. Re: the 26 lights I'm still curious about that; I also heard that the voice recorder picked up a conversation about the lights not being on, so it sounds as though they at least noticed. If so I'm even more baffled as to why they'd proceed with the throttle-up. It's also odd he didn't respond with the runway confirmation, not that it sounds as though that would have mattered since they flew out of the airport regularly from other reports and would have been expecting 22.

JFlyer, re: the excerpted quote, from the latest stuff I read it wasn't just the trees; tire marks at the end of the runway indicate they didn't leave terra firma until a berm launched the plane skyward.

At any rate it had to be a harrowing way to spend your last minutes alive.
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Professor
..... It's simple we have opposing views on many issues but it does not have to degrade to nonsense. You need to stop the name-calling and I need to the same but in no way should one stifle the other from expressing his own opinion.
GS said it best weeks ago when he pointed out to Shabah that I respond to people in the same way they approach me. If you want to talk about serious issues I have always been prepared to do that.

But you do realize that FTL has taken us all down the path of the lowest common denominator. The general level of discourse has degenerated because of his incessant name calling, profanity, lack of substance and reliance on emotional appeal instead of logic.
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gregs210
McBear, my thanks for all the additional information. I didn't realize you lived that close to the airport. Re: the 26 lights I'm still curious about that; I also heard that the voice recorder picked up a conversation about the lights not being on, so it sounds as though they at least noticed. If so I'm even more baffled as to why they'd proceed with the throttle-up. It's also odd he didn't respond with the runway confirmation, not that it sounds as though that would have mattered since they flew out of the airport regularly from other reports and would have been expecting 22.

JFlyer, re: the excerpted quote, from the latest stuff I read it wasn't just the trees; tire marks at the end of the runway indicate they didn't leave terra firma until a berm launched the plane skyward.

At any rate it had to be a harrowing way to spend your last minutes alive.
Runway 28/8 is only used as a GA runway in daylight. Frankly, I cannot recall ever seeing lights on that runway when coming in at night either in the 182 or on Commercial. It has not been paved in at least 20 years and its main job, besides GA is to park the US Marshall Service plane when they transfer prisoners to/from the Federal Correctional Facility here or when Goodyear parks one of the blimps for a week between events. We also get big spillover on the Kentucky Derby for Private Jets that have no room to park in Louisville so they come here to land and fill up 26 as an additional parking area. The Queen of England also parks her BAE146 when she comes to see her horses [not Camella Parker Bowles].

As for the lights that morning, my GUESS is they may have thought that the repaving project was still ongoing and not complete. They flew out of LEX but had not done so much lately. Also since LEX is really considered a ONE RUNWAY Airport as far as RJs are concerned, he might have just assumed he was on the only one. The pilot, who would have done the taxi out is the only one who could know that answer.

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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Runway 28/8 is only used as a GA runway in daylight. Frankly, I cannot recall ever seeing lights on that runway when coming in at night either in the 182 or on Commercial. It has not been paved in at least 20 years and its main job, besides GA is to park the US Marshall Service plane when they transfer prisoners to/from the Federal Correctional Facility here or when Goodyear parks one of the blimps for a week between events. We also get big spillover on the Kentucky Derby for Private Jets that have no room to park in Louisville so they come here to land and fill up 26 as an additional parking area. The Queen of England also parks her BAE146 when she comes to see her horses [not Camella Parker Bowles].

As for the lights that morning, my GUESS is they may have thought that the repaving project was still ongoing and not complete. They flew out of LEX but had not done so much lately. Also since LEX is really considered a ONE RUNWAY Airport as far as RJs are concerned, he might have just assumed he was on the only one. The pilot, who would have done the taxi out is the only one who could know that answer.
Yeah I remember seeing all the jets parked on that side of the field during the Keeneland Spring and Fall Sales. Robert Sangster from England with his B-737-100, Sheik Maktoum from Saudi with his B-727 which I heard had gold fixtures in the on board full bath room complete with tub.

During the years I flew in and out of LEX, '83-'86, I probably used 8/26 no more than a dozen times. Mostly for TOL crosswind training as a student.

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