Comair flight had lots of odd things - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:28 PM
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At least I'm not a living example of a botched partial birth abortion...
Harsh...but funny!
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:39 PM
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IIRC the captain, since he was not flying that leg, should be watching the air speed indicator and calling out V speeds to the first officer who presumably would be looking out the windscreen. Once they passed V1 (the speed at which the a/c can be stopped safely, he would be watching for V2 (rotation speed). I'm guessing that the f/o probably saw the end of 28 coming up quickly before he got to V2, but after V1, so he had no choice but to try to get it up. Hence the pull up partially cleared the fence before settling into the trees.

LEX was where I learned to fly back in '83. I haven't had the opportunity to fly in or out of there for around 10 years, but I know that the ground drops away from both ends of 4/22 and drops away from that end of 28. Even with the sloping ground, I seriously doubt that the outcome would have been any different for any other pilot flying a CRJ at or near gross weight. And I suppose someone could be confused about the taxiway/runway layout. Especially since a lot of a/c use midfield departures at LEX by treating the takeoff end of 28 as a shortcut to 22 if they feel they don't need the full 7000 ft.

Aviation accidents are almost always a string of small occurances that add up to an enevitable outcome. The poorly marked taxiway, the captain's wrong turn, the controller not seeing the error, not acknowledging the clearance properly, both of the flight crew's not checking heading with the runway they were cleared for, failing to question the lack of runway lighting for the runway the were on.

I have not heard anything about the other crash that occurred later that day except that it was a GA a/c. Got any details McBear?

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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:49 PM
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I would hate to be that first officer that survived.
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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:52 PM
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A few hours ago CNN reported that the Air Traffic Controller who was directing the Comair to the runnway did not have ebough sleep. He worked a 15 hour shift sleep for two hours and go back for a 8 hour shift at night. This guy is a veteran air traffic controller.

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:04 PM
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The job, while not physically demanding, requires mental alertness. Of course, at that time of day, LEX is no where near what one might call busy. But, being the only one on duty, the controller would be acting as ground controller, giving IFR clearances and directing a/c movement around the airport. He would be acting as tower controller issuing T/O and landing clearances. And he would be responsible for approach and departure monitoring, a/c separation and hand off to Indy Center. All of which require using different radio frequencies. Kind of like juggling snakes. If you're not careful there can be serious consequences.

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:17 PM
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I would hate to be that first officer that survived.
I would rather be the First Officer then anyone else in that plane.....Sorry, that's not a joke, I mean it.
We had a wreck here at Montgomery County Airport a while back, it happened to be a Vee tail Bonanza just like mine. The pilot dropped a wing on landing and it hooked the dirt alongside the runway. The plane cartwheeled throwing the passenger out of the A/C. She, the pilots wife, died on impact with the ground. He wasn't so lucky. The plane tumbled into a crumpled mass alongside the runway and caught fire. If you haven't seen an A/C burn, there isn't much left. With a Bonanza, the 70 gallons of fuel on board, and all the magnesium parts, there is even less then "normal". They had the pilot covered with a sheet. I was unlucky enough to arrive at the crash which was not far from where my plane was at the time when one of the cops pulled the sheet off the guy and I saw what was left........... No thanks, that's NOT the way I want to go.

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:22 PM
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Those V-talied Bonanzas have a terrible safety record.
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:38 PM
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Those V-talied Bonanzas have a terrible safety record.
Wow you know about aviation too, I am very impressed. Are you gonna call my little project gay or something? I mean what the hell I could be aiding some terrorists by building a low budget sim. Boo you need to report me before it's too late, we don't want a lefty shmuck playing with joysticks now do we?
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:48 PM
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Wow you know about aviation too, I am very impressed. Are you gonna call my little project gay or something? I mean what the hell I could be aiding some terrorists by building a low budget sim. Boo you need to report me before it's too late, we don't want a lefty shmuck playing with joysticks now do we?
Easy Professor, you know as well as I do that he's right. They don't call them "Bent Tail Doctor Killers" for nothing..... They were great planes, but you had to stay ahead of them............

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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JFlyer
IIRC the captain, since he was not flying that leg, should be watching the air speed indicator and calling out V speeds to the first officer who presumably would be looking out the windscreen. Once they passed V1 (the speed at which the a/c can be stopped safely, he would be watching for V2 (rotation speed). I'm guessing that the f/o probably saw the end of 28 coming up quickly before he got to V2, but after V1, so he had no choice but to try to get it up. Hence the pull up partially cleared the fence before settling into the trees.

LEX was where I learned to fly back in '83. I haven't had the opportunity to fly in or out of there for around 10 years, but I know that the ground drops away from both ends of 4/22 and drops away from that end of 28. Even with the sloping ground, I seriously doubt that the outcome would have been any different for any other pilot flying a CRJ at or near gross weight. And I suppose someone could be confused about the taxiway/runway layout. Especially since a lot of a/c use midfield departures at LEX by treating the takeoff end of 28 as a shortcut to 22 if they feel they don't need the full 7000 ft.

Aviation accidents are almost always a string of small occurances that add up to an enevitable outcome. The poorly marked taxiway, the captain's wrong turn, the controller not seeing the error, not acknowledging the clearance properly, both of the flight crew's not checking heading with the runway they were cleared for, failing to question the lack of runway lighting for the runway the were on.

I have not heard anything about the other crash that occurred later that day except that it was a GA a/c. Got any details McBear?
You are correct that most GA pilots use the first bit of 26 as a taxiway to 22 for easier TO.

Here is the best summary of all the data to date.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...ackages/crash/

The GA crash on Tuesday was a Single Engine out of Wichita Falls TX and crashed 75 miles ESE of LEX in Perry County. Very rough terrain. Choppers could not see the wreck so four wheelers had to go up in the mountains to the site. Here is a link:
http://wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5337999

McBear,
Kentucky

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