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post #41 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-23-2006, 11:58 PM
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I actually stayed there, and they let me out. I haven't got Mercedes-Benz when I stayed there though.
A little industry secret. Beside the Eagles, there are a dozen well known musicians playing accoustic guitar on that song, as well as filling in harmonies. It took three days to get it right.
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post #42 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
Socialists believe government should be democratic, which is to say, that it is of, by and for the people it represents and serves, and thus, it should provide solutions when the people demand that it do so. Libertarians leave the so-called solutions up to magical mystical market mechanisms, which are notorious for funneling wealth and "solutions" upward and out of the hands of reglah people.
Socialists know that people are so smart they can figure-out anything. People make governments so governments are good. As an example, look how well people have done with governments so far.

There's a difference between being magical and being unseen. In the first case, no rational explanation is possible. In the second, unseen things can be described accurately and with precision. Ex?: Telepathy vs probability.

B

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post #43 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Socialists know that people are so smart they can figure-out anything. People make governments so governments are good. As an example, look how well people have done with governments so far.

There's a difference between being magical and being unseen. In the first case, no rational explanation is possible. In the second, unseen things can be described accurately and with precision. Ex?: Telepathy vs probability.

B
I believe there is a strong correlation between the quality of governance, and the level of democratic control and engagement with the mechanisms of that governance. True socialism seeks to increase the level of democratic engagement, and we've never allowed this to happen in the modern era.

Markets allocate goods and (some) services in a relatively efficient manner, but they're horribly ineffective at distributing social justice. Their "magic" is solely related to the faith some folks place in their ability to "fix" purported problems, "if we just believe hard enough, they will gosh darn it."
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post #44 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
I believe there is a strong correlation between the quality of governance, and the level of democratic control and engagement with the mechanisms of that governance. True socialism seeks to increase the level of democratic engagement, and we've never allowed this to happen in the modern era.

Markets allocate goods and (some) services in a relatively efficient manner, but they're horribly ineffective at distributing social justice. Their "magic" is solely related to the faith some folks place in their ability to "fix" purported problems, "if we just believe hard enough, they will gosh darn it."
Doesn't that depend on how you define "social justice"?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #45 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 01:26 PM
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Well, if you define social justice as delivering huge sums to Paris Hilton so she can live the life of a rich junkie whore, than, yes, it works well.
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post #46 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Jealous.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #47 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
I believe there is a strong correlation between the quality of governance, and the level of democratic control and engagement with the mechanisms of that governance. True socialism seeks to increase the level of democratic engagement, and we've never allowed this to happen in the modern era.

Markets allocate goods and (some) services in a relatively efficient manner, but they're horribly ineffective at distributing social justice. Their "magic" is solely related to the faith some folks place in their ability to "fix" purported problems, "if we just believe hard enough, they will gosh darn it."
Social justice is, ... what, exactly?

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post #48 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 05:04 PM
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People not starving in the street is always a tip off. Pure capitalism pretty much guarantees that people who are not useful to the market place will end up in a Dickonsonian hell. But then again, you don't care if Grandma eats dog food, so why should you care.
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post #49 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 05:38 PM
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If Grandma didn't save like a good little ant instead of playing around like a care-free grasshopper then Grandma would be okay living off her savings. If all she did way play her productive years away then she better have an understanding family or get a job at Walmart.

Want to support charities? Fine with me. Free to choose.

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post #50 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-24-2006, 05:56 PM
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The Ant works hard in the heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The Grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he either dies out in the cold, or begs and receives humiliating charity from the ant he teased.


Although the characters are somewhat dated (and some even dead) here's a modern version:


When winter comes, the shivering Grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the Ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. CBS, NBC and ABC show up and provide pictures of the shivering Grasshopper next to a film of the Ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can it be that, in a country of such wealth, this poor Grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Bill and Hillary Clinton make a special guest appearance on the CBS Evening News and tell a concerned Dan Rather that they will do everything they can for the Grasshopper who has been denied the prosperity he deserves by those who benefited unfairly during the "Era of Greed." Richard Gephardt exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the Ant has gotten rich off the "back of the Grasshopper," and calls for an immediate tax hike on the Ant to make him pay his "fair share."

The Ant sues, but loses the case.

The story ends as we see the Grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while he lives in a government house. The Ant has disappeared in the snow. And on the TV they are showing Bill Clinton standing before a wildly applauding audience announcing that a new era of "Fairness" has dawned in America.


from:
http://www.progress.org/antgrass.htm
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