When Did "The War On Terror" Start, And, How Do We Determine It Is Over? - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 02:45 PM
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Not understanding me.
My point is that, if what has transpired in Iraq is called "western" and "freedom", its no wonder that they are afraid of it.

I think its sad that all they have in return for the bloodshed, death and chaos that they, as a people, have endured for the past 3 and a half years is text messaging (and awfully morbid texting at that). If we think that THAT is a beacon of light of what the "West" has to offer, then I'm amazed that they are not running in the opposite direction. If Iraq is what we are selling the broader ME as what democracy and the US have to offer, we won't be seeing any buyers.
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post #62 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:11 PM
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Just because we might have used precision guided missles first to blow up house in Iraq does not mean we invented the missle. Your drawing conclusions because you dislike the message.

BS huh... are you denying that In December 1954, Israeli military jets intercepted a civilian aircraft in Syrian airspace that had recently taken off from Damascus, and forced it to land within Israeli territory. Syrian passengers were kidnapped for 48 hours, pending negotiations over the fate of five Israeli soldiers who had been captured inside Syrian territory while mounting wiretapping installations??

Irgun (also spelled Irgun Zvai-Leumi), Hebrew for "Military-National Organization". Widely regarded by the British, amongst others, as a terrorist organization and by many Israelis as freedom fighters, is also known by its Hebrew acronym Etzel. Was involved in known terrorist activities such as the bombing of King David Hotel in Jersualem in 1946, killing close to a hundred people.

Even the British recognized it, so you can call it BS all you want, the facts speak for themself. Hate speech to you is anything that puts Jews in a bad light, regardless of the facts. I think you should rethink that attitude.
The fact that agents of the state of Israel may or may not have committed acts of terror is not the issue. You're changing the subject. The whole point of this article was to claim that jews are the ones who were the first to use terror tactics in the modern world. E.g., we are told that "10. Beating of hostages: first used by the Zionists..". So according to you "before the Zionists" no one else in recorded history ever beat any hostages. What a pile of crap that is. Pure mendaciousness on your part. And to make a distinction between "inventing" and "being the first to use" is of absolutely no value in the context of this discussion as both are palpably false.

Of course every time an islamofascist murders western citizens expect arab aplogists like yourself to bring up the bombing of the King David hotel. That incident alone serves as a justification for whatever outrage the arabs choose to commit from here on out.

I don't know who is respopnsible for being the first to throw a grenade into a government building but one thing I do know for sure is that islamofascists are the first to fly a fully loaded jet airplane into a skyscaper and murder 3000 Americans in cold blood.

Oh, yeah, don't tell me: I know: the King David Hotel.

Last edited by baby boo; 08-21-2006 at 03:14 PM.
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post #63 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:40 PM
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The fact that agents of the state of Israel may or may not have committed acts of terror is not the issue. You're changing the subject. The whole point of this article was to claim that jews are the ones who were the first to use terror tactics in the modern world.
Hey if thats the way you want to read it.. go at it. Personally, I could care less who started it or who invented it. My only intent was to prove that Jews are guilty of terrorism to.

The fact of the matter is people like you act like your just innocent bystanders in all this. When in reality, you guys are just as guilty as the Arabs for acts of terrorism. You can spin that all you want, but they are none the less supported by facts.

Israeli definiation of:

Arab aplogists

1. Someone who supports with cold, hard facts that Israel has commited acts of terrorism.
2. Anyone who makes Jews look bad, even if the facts support that conclusion
3. Anyone who defends an Arab or any of Israels enemies
4. Those who fail to fall in line with Israeli propaganda

You know BB, my tax dollars have gone to support you guys, up to the tune of 100 billion a year, and personally I would be just as happy if you guys would stop leaching off us. Your interests are not necessarily our interest or our problem. Honestly, I would expect a little more gratitude from people like you, but instead what I hear from Jews is this demanding "We owe you" crap, and pissing & moaning when not all Americans just love you guys. Reminds me of the French. The fact is, We don't owe you jack!. If it wasn't for us you would be living under abdul right now. So lets quit with the holyer than thou attitude.

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"

Last edited by rstone; 08-21-2006 at 03:49 PM.
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post #64 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by That Guy
Not understanding me.
My point is that, if what has transpired in Iraq is called "western" and "freedom", its no wonder that they are afraid of it.

I think its sad that all they have in return for the bloodshed, death and chaos that they, as a people, have endured for the past 3 and a half years is text messaging (and awfully morbid texting at that). If we think that THAT is a beacon of light of what the "West" has to offer, then I'm amazed that they are not running in the opposite direction. If Iraq is what we are selling the broader ME as what democracy and the US have to offer, we won't be seeing any buyers.

They'd have never been able to do anything of the sort under the previous regime - they'd have either been spied upon, or turned in by a loved one after being tortured by the Republican Guard, then executed publicly. Liberation doesn't equal freedom from problems. Now the Iraqi's realize that they are free, which is a priceless treasure, and their freedom faces a challenge in the form of radicals/insurgents.

You're right, I don't understand how something so positive can be so often perceived as something so negative. Then again, I'm typically a "big picture" person...and an incurable optimist.
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post #65 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:55 PM
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\Then again, I'm typically a "big picture" person...and an incurable optimist.
Yeah, but can you prove the glass is half full and not half empty.

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"
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post #66 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:58 PM
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Yeah, but can you prove the glass is half full and not half empty.
All things being equal, I can only choose how I wish to perceive it - as being either a "good" thing, or a "bad" thing.
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post #67 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 04:03 PM
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All things being equal, I can only choose how I wish to perceive it - as being either a "good" thing, or a "bad" thing.
See now you've done it!... now I gotta ask.... who determines what is "Good" and what is "Bad?" And what if your wrong?? and who determines if your wrong??? oh hell, forget it!.

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"
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post #68 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by azimuth
Did terror declare war on us or did we declare war on terror?

Regardless of the reason, when an individual is attacked, prudence dictates the assumption of a defensive posture; that is if the point is still self preservation.
A strong offense is the best defense.

If you take a defnesive posture you cede the initiaive to the enemy and instead of being proactive you are reactive.
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post #69 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rstone
......

You know BB, my tax dollars have gone to support you guys, up to the tune of 100 billion a year, and personally I would be just as happy if you guys would stop leaching off us. ....
Who the hell, exactly, is "you guys" in that statement above?

I'm an American and its my tax dollars too and I have the right to petition the government to spend it as I see fit as well. It's not like I'm living on your plantation. And if you're talking about America's financial support to the state of Israel it's 3 billion dollars (not 100 billion) a year and most of that money comes back to the states in the form of arms purchases. In fact it is the same amount of money that Egypt gets yearly from the US taxpayer.

Furthermore I find it disingenuous that people here cry foul whenever 9/11 is brought up and yet see no irony in raising the issue of the bombing of the King David Hotel which happened over 60 years ago, killing 100 people. As if there is some moral equivalence there.

I'm sorry but reproducing that piece of arab propaganda uncritically, as you did, puts your objectivity into question and establishes a new low water mark for your credibility.
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post #70 of 345 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 05:22 PM
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I'm sorry but reproducing that piece of arab propaganda uncritically, as you did, puts your objectivity into question and establishes a new low water mark for your credibility.
God forbid someone should point out that Israeli's committed terrorist acts! Oh please, give me a break!. I think your response would fall under one of those Israeli definitions again. Personally, I'm sick and tired of you guys whining all the time about how the big bad arabs are out to get you. while pretending israeli are saints., and god forbid someone should show otherwise!. You know what.. I dont care. Israel can fight its own battles. This isnt the United Welfare State of America. If you want to send money, be my guest.... but NOT on my tax dollar.

Impact Summary

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"

Last edited by rstone; 08-21-2006 at 05:26 PM.
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