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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
There's nobody out there there big enough to protect the First Amendment other than the ACLU?

B
President Bush?
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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There are plenty of people involved in 1st Amendment issues, on both the right and left. Do you have a point?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Professor
President Bush?
Mr. Bush and his stooge Gonzalez are currently in the most odd position of arguing that the Bill of Rights does not apply to American citizens.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
There are plenty of people involved in 1st Amendment issues, on both the right and left. Do you have a point?
Read Jim's and your own argument that the 2nd Amendment needs no ACLU protection because the NRA does such a stellar job.

Now think slowly because this is the difficult part.

If there were no ACLU, would there be no other organization large enough to fight the government on 1st Amendment issues?

I'm think of oh, ...
the media,
The Roman Catholic Church, Baptists, Presbetyrians, Jews, Muslims,
Shriners, Country Clubs, Masons, Elks, Eagles, etc, etc,.


Now stay with me here...

In other words, there are institutions and organizations far larger and more powerful the NRA, in its wildest dreams, could ever hope to be, that regularly fight for their 1st Amendment rights, whether the ACLU is in the courthouse or not.

So Gauge's (Guage? Gage?) question stands: Why doesn't the ACLU provide resources to defend the 2nd Amendment?

-------------------

Now in fact, I do recall a case back a long time ago in which the ACLU joined the NRA on a 2nd Amendment issue. I'll bet that the ACLU has fought the occasional court battle on that issue. But I'll bet the resources dedicated are not in proportion to expenditures on other constitutionall issues.

I don't know for sure.

B
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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As far as I know, the Mayo Clinic doesn't support the 2nd Amendment as well, but it is very concerned about patient rights. Again, what the fuck is your point? Like any large organization, the ACLU has to use it's money wisely. What is the wisdom of spending money on the NRA's issues, when the NRA is the most successful of all BOR organizations? Do they need more money? They are the richest of all lobbies - perhaps you should be asking why they don't support the ACLU? Are they losing some battle I don't know about? HAs the lack of ACLU support somehow undermined the NRA's cause? What gun control law has been introduced that the ACLU should have jumped on? As usual, you argue for the absurd.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 08-20-2006 at 04:18 PM.
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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:18 PM
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I think Mr. Jeremy D. Blanks, Ph.D., should stick to teaching Inorganic Fluorine and Analytical Chemistry at the University of Alabama, and leave the legal debates to legal scholars.

While I understand the stance the ACLU has taken on gun control, they also claim to be neutral. If the NRA exist than why worry that the ACLU is not protecting your right to own a bazooka.

Regardless, the fact still remain that the ACLU has a proven track record of protecting the constitution and civil liberties of Americans. While you may not always agree with their political views or the cases they defend, remember that the constitution does not exist purely to protect the majority from the minority, but to also protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

"Protecting the Constitution vs Presidental powers is not about terrorism, but of doing what is right vs. what is easy. I choose doing right... where do you stand?"
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor
"Well, it turns out that Mr. Allen is the son of a Tunisian immigrant and had spent time in those parts of the world,"
Is he related to Baby Boo? He is from that exact region too.

......

Yes, Prof, I'm related to Mr. Allen in the same way that you are related to the nut who firebombed the Baltimore Hebrew University earlier this month:

I.e., Six degrees of separation...
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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by baby boo
Yes, Prof, I'm related to Mr. Allen in the same way that you are related to the nut who firebombed the Baltimore Hebrew University earlier this month:

I.e., Six degrees of separation...
Easy there baby, I asked the question I did not make the connection, big difference.
Besides you are taking this way too personal. You need to loosen up and not be so sensitive.
Now about that guy in Baltimore, maybe I am maybe I am not...
You see I am not taking myslef too seriously here, chill boo
Maybe I know you for all we know.
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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 05:28 PM
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That was just a joke, prof. Perhaps poorly executed. Everyone in the world is related to everyone else within six degrees of separation. That was my point...
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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 05:44 PM
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Here's what I was alluding to, Prof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Separation
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